I honestly can't see why people keep aruging about this I mean, we are NEVER going to change each others opinions. Some people are totally against clipping, some arent, you should not push your opinion onto other people and dismiss things they say and try to make them seem 100% wrong because you dont like their opinion on this. There are pros and cons to clipping, and there are pros and cons to not clipping. YOU know whats best for your bird. Not ANYONE else. While in some peoples opinions you may be a bad owner for clipping, to most you are not, and it should only matter what is safest for your bird in the end. I really dont think its fair to say any owner is at fault for a birds death that died from a flying accident; yes, you should cover mirrors, you should cover windows, there is nothing you can do about walls though; and lots of people that are trying to talk someone into not clipping a bird will say things like they will learn where a window, mirror, ect, is, and that they cant fly at it, well, that is what they have been told, they were only trying to do the right thing; and when something terrible happens just because they listened, its not fair to blame them. Birds can easliy hit walls in rooms they are familiar with, all it takes is a sudden noise to scare them. And saying clipping wings is a punishment is not right either, as no one clips for punishment; they clip to keep them safe, because they love them.

As for clipping for training, I have mixed feelings about this. It seems crule, but when you really think about it, its not that bad. An untrained bird is more likly to fly away from you, scared. And if its out of the cage, or happened to get out while trianing, it could be very bad as they would most likly be in an unfamilr room flying at full speed and not trusting you enough to come back to you, which can lead to flying accidents, I've heard about it plently of times.."I let my bird out to train it and it flew around like crazy hitting walls and stuff! I was so scared!"

I wont say its unnatural to keep a bird in a cage and compare it to being clipped, however I will say its unnatural to be in a box (your house) surrounded by walls constantly. Birds are meant to fly, yes, but in the sky, open, with nothing in their way apart from trees.

Also..
This is true but please keep in mind that it only takes one unfortunate crash to stop the learning process. Your birds were lucky to have a chance to learn, but a lot aren't.

Once is all it would take to kill them if they hit it right (or wrong). I don't believe in forcing anything to trust you and I don't believe in clipping for training sake. HOWEVER, every bird I get will be half clipped for saftey. After what happened with Kodi and from what I know from Alyssa, my birds will be clipped and they will be clipped correctly. Nothing about a caged bird is natural, period. I have no opinion on the sides of that argument either, I just stated fact. Yes clipped birds can get into trouble, but unclipped birds get into trouble clipped birds do, as well as trouble clipped birds cannot. If Kodi had been clipped properly I would still have her, that is a fact I have to live with. There is my 2 cents on this and I will stay out of it from now on. A bit of advice though: different situations call for different measures, and you can't force someone to agree with you.

Alyssa, you beat me to it. How are you?

I'm pretty good. I have a cold. Stupid cold weather (I love it though). You?

BTW, I believe in waiting to clip until a bird is at least through it's first molt. Clipping before that is like cutting of the hands of a toddler. If the hands magically grew back after a while, then would the kid have any sort of coordination or ability to use them properly? Probably not.

I'm alright, just getting over bronchitis. Anything interesting happen? How's Cosmo?

Ew, bronchitis. I had that when I was little.. awful. And, not really..Cosmos fine.. he is getting, uh, very noisy lately xD He chirps constantly. And he goes into this panic chirp everytime I leave the room, then it turns into an angry chirp, and then he stops, and when I come back hes usally taking a nap. And when I lay down, he CACKS at me to come back, sit by him. Hes finally decided the spray bottle is not the devil and LOVES to be misted now, he goes nuts, hangs onto one of his toys and fluffs up flapping his wings crazily getting soaked. Other than that.. same old hyper Cosmo sense the last time I talked to you :p

Awesome, I'm glad Cosmo's doing well. And bronchitis is no big deal for me, I have it chronic so I get it around this time every year. I have never heard of a keet CACKing, lol.

About the first part of your statement, one can say that clipped birds can also get into trouble unclipped birds cannot: as in not being able to fly away from another pet, say a cat. (I note that a lot of people on this forum have cats as well.)
I don't think anyone's trying to change anyone's mind here. People are just providing different points of view. I fail to see what could possibly be so wrong about a debate.

Oh, its not a debate thats wrong, those are fine. But to me some of the comments here really arent needed and arent very respectful. I wont point anything out, as not everyone might see them that way.