Ashley, you are offended by most of the replies that don't line up with your views on life and God.

What can I say, if you don't like what I have to say, don't read my replies. No one is forcing you.

As for saying that I see "crippled reasoning" in your posts, well, I do. Anyone who gets offended at the mention of the words oral sex and anal sex gets an eye roll and a head shake from me.

Well I don't think your too kind.. and I'm not the only one. Why wouldn't I read your reply when it has my name in it? You were attacking me, whether you think so or not. I wasn't offended by oral sex or anal sex. I just say that it's wrong, is that being offended? Okay, whatever I don't want to begin a fight but what you said was uncalled for and immature.

Oh My God that is SO horrible of him. I can't even imagine having a soulmate, a partner in life that would be so incredibly actively destructive and slimy. I am amazed you stayed with him for 20 years, it sounds like his emotional abuse was horrific. I am so glad you are away from him and am sure you'll find someone who is far more worthy of your love.

Nobody should ever, ever have to put up with emotional abuse. That is a violation of what your marriage vows said.

Ashley and Kacey - to be fair, his point was that he was going to grant you MORE leeway going forward because you did not have the experience that many of us here have. There have been posts you both have made in which you said you didn't know something yet. He was saying that it makes more sense for you to say that as a 15 yr old - vs a 30 year old claiming they'd never thought of that issue.

It's fine to want to be respected and treated as having a valuable opinion. But you also need to earn that respect - by handling criticism like an adult. Beating on someone for saying you're due a little extra forgiveness is not the way to show that. Being mature means giving reasons for your issues, vs saying "it's wrong!". It means if someone voices a different point of view, you should consider it and give a rational rebuttal - vs saying "But the Bible says it's wrong". That is all part of holding a mature discussion.

I note that I still haven't heard the Literalist view on head coverings - if you forgot, the thread is here -

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000001

That seems to be VERY clear and exact in the Bible, but you have not said if you follow those rules.

Alright, I did not expect you to say that. I'm sorry if I'm not handling someone calling my opinons crippled the right way. He had no reason to post that though. I haven't done anything not to earn any respect. Florian should still respect my opinions.
I am not a Bible literalist anyway.

Florian, Ashley, Kacey,

I think the phrase 'Crippled reason? ' is an unpleasant one. I don't think it would be a valuable or useful description of anyone at any age.

I do understand about the voice of inexperience, though.

It is not at all uncommon for teenagers, who have been committed Christians for as long as they can remember, to start questioning their beliefs. And some even go as far as becoming agnostics or even atheists, while others just change and join another religion. Of course, many remain true to their faith for their entire lives. I'm sure that the young committed Christians on this site feel sure that they will remain faithful and you probably will. But you may not and of course none of us will know for a good while yet.

I know it sounds patronising. But I have seen it happen, several times.

When I started senior school I was one of a very few people who raised their hand when the class was asked who considered themselves to be a Christian. I think I was probably already beginning to have doubts, actually, but they soon became stronger and I became very worried, frightened and guilt-ridden about it. This happens quite a lot, I think.

Of course, there are adults who change too; atheists who find God in later life, for example.

I understand what you are saying and personally I think it is sad.. I deeply believe that I will be Catholic all of my life. My Christian roots have only begun since this past summer when I had a very moving experience. Before that week if you had said the same thing to me, I may have believed that I could possibly be one of the people who change but I will always stand up for what I believe is right, and I will always be Catholic.

In an interview with Bart Ehrman, I heard him say that the thing considered wrong, with what we now term homosexuality, was that a man was putting himself in the place of a woman ~ and it was that, which was considered wrong. It was only he who was considered to be doing wrong ~ not both parties.

I've never been a literalist, and my views on homosexuality have changed over the years. In general, I tend to accept that people love in ways that are comfortable for them, and short of harming others (and themselves), I wish them well.

As one of my daughters is lesbian, I have gone further to re-examine gut-level beliefs as well as church-taught tenets. I believe that God has made each of us the way that we are - including enjoying sex, and if the way we are made or become includes sexual desire and enjoyment of and with the same sex, then a Biblical injunction to avoid it must be wrong.

I very much liked this post, Lisa (and feel much the same):

suppose this is actually a question that is impossible for a non-married person to answer, to guess what they will do when married. It is really hard, being a virgin, to imagine what it is like when you are sleeping in the bed with someone you love heart and soul. You love looking at them, holding them, snuggling with them. I'm not talking about wild sexual orgies here, I'm just talking about one man, one woman, overwhelming love and caring. You both think of the joy and happiness you bring to each other, like buying flowers and writing love notes and so on.

In that context, if the sun is streaming in the windows, the birds are chirping, you are curled up in each others arms and begin kissing, intimacy is very natural and instinctive. You might find that pleasing each other isn't "gluttonous" - it is quite natural and normal. Pleasure involves using different techniques that you both enjoy. When you trail kisses down your beloved husband's body, it's sort of strange to avoid certain body parts as 'bad'. It will have to wait until you're married and in that situation, to see if you actually say "Sorry, we can do all these other things, but this natural action is one we'll avoid". There's no way to tell until then.

heheh... with two divorces behing me thwere have been times when i have wished i was gay... at least blokes seem to make a little more sense..