i'm with you on this squeeky.

Maybe wlh is right about one thing...... bye bye

any of you guys read aquinas? a lot of talk about ominpotency and causality, which brought me to the conclusion that if god is omnipotent and he is the ultimate good, then logically he must also be the ultimate evil. which the old testament does not seem to have a problem with, see soddom and gemorrha, the egyptian firstborn and the flood. no real need for the devil in the old book, because god is happy enough to get his own hands dirty.

the old testament of course predates the new by centuries, maybe millenia, and was compliled in a rather more conceited manner. god had to be divine, and therefore could not continue to carry out these atrocities. enter the devil. handy, eh?
acts of evil can only be perpretated by people, not god or the devil. to me the two are intertwined as one in the universal forces of nature, which are great to understand but do not require submission.

if a soldier puts a bullet in your head, that is an act of evil. if a cliff drops a rock on your head, thats bad luck and that is all there is to it.we are responsible for our own actions, and if we get in the way of nature, thats nobodys fault but our own. we choose to live on coastlines and at the foot of volcanoes and suchlike, so why are we so surprised that a number of us get annihilated now and again.

and please please leave 9/11 out of any religious discussion. it was a political act and has nothing to do with anyone's god. and for the record we should not assume that it was an islamist act. far greater benefits were reaped by christians and jews after that day.

somsuj has the right idea. spending time among hindus taught me that living by the concept of karma makes us all more responsible for ourselfes rather than hiding behind a book compiled by a rather deranged bunch of individuals many years ago.

" please please leave 9/11 out of any religious discussion."

That is as absurd as leaving the Catholic Church out of a discussion about The Crusades.

Hi janimal! Welcome to the discussion! I was w/you up until this part:

So now our forefathers were "deranged" :rolleyes: . Okay. The NT also has its version of karma. "As ye sow, so shall ye reap." Much of what's happened to humanity, we have brought on ourselves.

I'm sorry? Is it me? I'm totally bewildered by this comment.

have a closer look at the financial movements around that date and you'll see what i mean. the put options are just the start. many institutions made vast amounts of money as a direct result of 9/11, and i've always believed that if you want to uncover who is behind a conspiracy you should start by looking at who reaped the greatest benefit from it, and that most certainly was not the islamists. there is still far too much pussyfooting around 9/11, and people seem to forget that that as amny as 120,000 people may have died in iraq. it doesn't take a genius to see that this was an obvious result of the attacks on the towers.

like them or not, terrorists tend to be pretty clever people and wouldn't take action which would result in the annihilation of their homeland.

i don't suppose we'll ever find out the whole truth, but there are too many glaring inconsistencies and loose ends for me to be convinced by the conventional version of the truth.i think the attacks were a self inflicted publicity stunt, and the only reason that islamists got the blame is the masses of oil sitting under their homelands. like i said - political act and not religious.

Have people here been sharing medication!!!!

i didn't know that i had the right idea!!

BTW Hindu Gita says - karmanyebadhikarasthemafaleshukadachana.

its Sanskrit and Sanskrit is notorius for adding all words together.

it means - do your own job (sincerely and truthfully) do not think about the result (if you are sincere - desired result will come).

i try to follow that principle - there is a name of this Philosophy : KARMAYOGA.

yes - WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OURSELVES - and this concept does not necessarily need a God.

Afterlife - i shall think about it when i go there.

sorry boss - it is a political act based on religious belief. Christians or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists or Muslims - whoever makes money afterwards does not matter - it originated in Islamic mindset. BTW terrorists don't think about damage on their side - if they did - suicide bombers would not have been there.


@ Squeeky - that was a great fight with wlh.

however - here is my 2 pennies :

1. you cannot judge God - can you not question God.

2. is it very impertinent to ask Christian God - how he managed to create evil ? if he is creating everything in 6 days and takes a rest - was he sleeping / drowsy when he also created evil ? he had the opportunity to create a Disneyland - why he did not ?

There may be more to it than the authorities are allowing the public to know, but are you really and truthfully suggesting, re September 11th, that: 'the attacks were a self inflicted publicity stunt,' having just said: 'clever people .. wouldn't take action which would result in the annihilation of their homeland.'

This is really beyond belief!

I don't think that there is any evidence at all to suggest that Iraq was the homeland of any of the terrorists concerned.

Also, terrorists do indeed commit attacks on their own homelands and on the homelands of people who share their religion.

Suicide bombers are happy to die for their beliefs; sometimes their loved-ones are happy for them to do so, and they know that people who share their beliefs may die along with them.

Are you serious or just trying to wind things up?

sorry, but i am serious. by homeland i was not referring to iraq in particular rather the middle east at large. there is a whole catalogue of irrefutible evidence of prior knowledge of the attacks by both the american and british administrations, and there are many glaring inconsistencies in the attacks on both the pentagon and the towers.

i worked as an industrial research chemist for 15 years, so i know my onions when it comes to researching things, and just for starters, many eminent artchitects agree the towers could not have fallen as a result of the attacks, as burning kerosene cannot melt steel. its like trying to melt lead with a hairdrier.

with regards to the pentagon, show me a single picture that shows even a scrap of plane wreckage. i have yet to see one, but there was an exit hole on the inside courtyard characteristic of a cruise missile. not my words, but those of defence analysts.

furthermore, the flightpath of the 'plane' which apparently hit the pentagon took an almost impossible arc to hit the south of the building, which was closed for renovation, and far from the more critical areas of the building which would have been far easier to hit. i have a good friend who is a retired raf test pilot, and he assures me this would have been a completely impossible manouvre to complete in a boeing.

another interesting fact is that the pilot which the american administration identified as having completed this impossible flightpath was described by his contmporaries at the training camps as being such a poor pilot that no-one would even get into a cessna with him.

i could go on for months like this, but i have a feeling i'd be wasting my time as most people are happy to be spoonfed the official truth and swear by every word.if we are being told the truth why are there so many glaring inconsistencies and impossibilities in the stories?

'the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality'....dante.....