What Bible? How do we know the Bible exists? For that matter how do we know we exists? Are you certain I wrote that? Actually who am I?

Ok now that I've gotten the silliness out of the way lets get to the real stuff. Can we all agree atleast that we exist?

If we can't agree on that then we'll never even be able to debate God's existense, or sin, or repentance. Because if we don't exists then none of this matters. So before I move on I want everyone to weigh in on this question.

Do you feel that you exist?

Fish, Thank you for your explanation…it was clear and easily understood, but Believers post still makes me question what he meant…after all if nothing you do can get you into heaven, why then love your enemies ? Please understand that my lack of belief does not mean I have no respect for those who do…we’re just different :cool:

Questions, questions and more questions. We question everything and believe nothing. I, like many others on this planet were glued to the TV when men first landed on the moon. Immediately there was disbelief that it actually happened. Did we really land on the moon or was it a hoax. Although there are pictures, transcripts of the trials, confessions, and the survivors themselves, many claim that the holocaust never occurred. During 911 the world witnessed the many news clips of the planes striking their targets, list of the passengers were published, still many claim that it did not occur that way. They claim the planes used were not passenger planes and that missiles were used to bring down the twin towers prior to the planes striking them. People believe what they want to believe. No amount of evidence will convince anyone if they do not want to believe. Do I exist and living the life that I think I am living or am I actually hooked up to some machine and dreaming all of this? Well I have chosen to believe in something and I am going to live my life even if it is just a dream. I don’t accept things at face value but I also do not disregard everything that cannot be proven. The examples above and there are many more out there that show that witnessing or proving something does not mean that it will be believed. We choose to believe what we want to believe.

[quote]He said about those that were crucifying Him “Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing”. [/quote]He also said, on the same cross: My God, why has thou forsaken me?

[quote]Thank you for your explanation…it was clear and easily understood, but Believers post still makes me question what he meant…after all if nothing you do can get you into heaven, why then love your enemies ? Please understand that my lack of belief does not mean I have no respect for those who do…we’re just different[/quote We believe that we do not enter heaven because of our good deeds. We are all sinful and one of us is not better than the other. We enter heaven because of Jesus did on the cross; He paid the price that we could not pay. The Law that was given to us by God was to show that we could not live up to it. If we break one of the laws we are guilty of breaking them all. It showed that we could never enter heaven on our own merits. Jesus paid the price for our sin and failures. He redeemed us. That is why we believe that only through Jesus can a person be saved. Otherwise we will be trying to accomplish it on our own and we will fail. When I go before God to be judged, I will not be declared righteous because of the things I accomplished, but because of what He did on the cross.

The ability to question what is around us and what is within us is human instinct...when you stop searching is that the time to die, to give up are you just existing,life has its own purpose for each of us it does'nt have to be the same for us all,and questioning can be fun as well, even if it just leads to deeper knowledge of yourself

[quote]Originally posted by PDM: [b] [quote]Originally posted by jesusfollower: [b] [quote] All Christians are cafeteria Christians. [/quote]Please be careful w/these blanket statements. ;) ... [/b][/quote]Yes, generalisations are rarely helpful and, when negative, can be offensive. [/b][/quote]It is not a generalization, and if you read what I wrote you will understand this. I stand by what I said: we all pick and choose what we believe, there is nobody alive in this world that believes and follows 100% of what it says in the bible, the Koran, the bhagavad gita or whatever other holy book. [quote]Originally posted by Believer: [b] To be honest I don't live life wondering if I'm breaking one of the laws of Moses. But I automatically know when I've done something wrong. [/b][/quote]Same here, but your perceptions of what is wrong and my perceptions of what is wrong, though probably broadly similar, surely vary in certain respects. In the end you can’t say that your sense of right or wrong is godlier than mine. It’s just what you believe, and much of what you and I believe is probably visceral rather than logical. [b] [quote] I don't feel the smallest hint of arrogance in saying that I've searched and found, and you just haven't yet. Because in the eyes of a believer a non-believer is lost. As a believer I should have a heart for those who don't know Christ, and I should be ready, willing and able to share Christ with them. [/b][/quote]And then there are, for example, Muslims, who believe the very same thing: i.e. that they must convert you to Allah; that they have searched and found and you haven’t. You may believe that you are right and they are wrong, but you don’t KNOW it. It COULD be that they are right and you are doomed to hell because you don’t follow Mohammed. In the best case scenario, your claiming to be the exclusive owner of God’s truth will make you look arrogant, in the worst case scenario it will help to drive more of the endless cycles of war and bloodshed that have resulted from people trying to convert each other to “the one and only truth.” I tend to think it is highly disrespectful (and therefore wrong) to tell people that my God is right and theirs is wrong, unless I have some serious substance to back that up with. But there is no serious substance to back up any religion’s point of view, it’s just a matter of belief. Just as you searched and found Jesus, others have searched and found Buddha. Their reasons are probably just as valid as yours and their stories just as compelling. The way I see it, if Jesus wants to call others to Him, He is quite capable of doing this on His own, He doesn’t need my help or yours.

mbas400 said:
This true, this statement came at a time when all the sins of humanity came upon Jesus. He experienced for the first time, separation from His father due to the our sin.

[quote]Originally posted by Capt. Haddock: I tend to think it is highly disrespectful (and therefore wrong) to tell people that my God is right and theirs is wrong, unless I have some serious substance to back that up with. But there is no serious substance to back up any religion’s point of view, it’s just a matter of belief. Just as you searched and found Jesus, others have searched and found Buddha. Their reasons are probably just as valid as yours and their stories just as compelling. [/QB][/quote]Then we stop sharing and this discussion ends here. I cannot seperate my beliefs from the Bible because they are grounded in the Bible, and part of who I am. As a Christians we have been comanded by Christ to share our beliefs. Mat28:19 "Go ye therefore and teach all nations" The views I express are not my own. They are written in the Bible. Do you want to accept those views as fact? That's up to you to decide. But it's up to me to inform you. You find it offensive, as a Christian, that I share my beliefs as fact. I find it offensive that you, as a Christian do not. I have searched and found Jesus, I've tried the on my own thing. It doesn't work. It leads to feelings of guilt, and regret for actions I would never have committed if I was really following Christ. Is God hard to understand? Yes he says it point blank "My ways are not your ways". We're not God! Who are we to try and understand him? I'm not asking that you believe blindly. I and several others have stated several times "We cannot prove God. Only God can prove God." How can he do that? You have to ask him to reveal himself to you. Challenge him. Tell him "God if this is true and you do exist prove it"

Then the discussion should end. I'm interested in hearing about your beliefs, but I don't want to be converted to them.

If you can't separate the discussion of your beliefs without trying to convert me, I'm not interested in talking with you any more.