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#126129 - 05/27/06 03:24 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
mbas400 Offline
Tin Star Soulmate

Registered: 04/21/06
Posts: 3666
Loc: Texas, USA
Never mind the Amelekites. What about all the babies being slaughtered in Darfur? Or when a tsunami or earthquake strikes?

Or when an airplane skids off a runway and only kills the 7yr old in the car and no one else?

(I'm stuck on that last one).
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#126130 - 05/27/06 04:41 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
MrsJF Offline
Long Time Friend

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 756
Loc: Pennsylvania
Why does anyone die?
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MHA bell tolls to end misunderstanding & discrimination & rings for victory over mental illness.

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#126131 - 05/27/06 09:22 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
I was reading this and thought It would go well with the topic of this thread.

REVENGE, REPRESSION, OR FORGIVENESS

"The judge called it "strength." The prosecutor called it "refreshing." And the general public called it "crazy!" It was the response of forgiveness which a 70 year-old woman had towards the man who cut her throat and sexually assaulted her."

http://www.guidelines.org/commentaries/may08_06.asp
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"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126132 - 05/27/06 09:28 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
Here is another article that deals with some of the questions asked here.

THE BURDEN OF UNDERSTANDING

"Why? Why does God not control the typhoons which rage? Why does he allow deranged individuals such as Hitler to send millions to their deaths in the concentration camps of World War 2? Why does He allow some to be born beautiful and others to be ugly? Why suffering? Why should babies die?"

http://www.guidelines.org/commentaries/may31_06.asp
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"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126133 - 05/27/06 09:37 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
janimal Offline
Tin Star Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 3307
Loc: bude , cornwall
Quote:
Why? Why does God not control the typhoons which rage? Why does he allow deranged individuals such as Hitler to send millions to their deaths in the concentration camps of World War 2? Why does He allow some to be born beautiful and others to be ugly? Why suffering? Why should babies die?
because the christian view of a merciful god is inaccurate. we bounce around between natural events and the calamities caused by evil men. god doesn't interfere with either, because he doesn't care in the sense we would like him to and it's up to US and not HIM to sort out our lives.
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It's All got to go!!!

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#126134 - 05/27/06 09:46 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
Janimal:

Are you so certain in your view that our view of God is inacurate? Have you questioned what you believe in and whether it is accurate? Are you willing to truely open your eyes and come to term with what you will see? Do you really believe that He does not care? Have you taken the time out to ask Him? Are you willing to bet your life on your beliefs?
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"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126135 - 05/27/06 10:29 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
janimal Offline
Tin Star Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 3307
Loc: bude , cornwall
well, i've taken the time to read the bible, the q'ran, bits of cabala, and i've done my best to familiarize myself with hinduism, buddism, bahaid-ism, and a bunch of shamanic relogions. i have read aquinas, plato, aristotle, nietzsche, jung, freud, pirsig - the list goes on and on. i have questioned all of these before drawing my conclusuions.

am i willing to open my eyes and come to terms with what i see? i am and i have. the human race is ignorant, self serving and apparently hell - bent on self destruction. religion is at once a source of comfort to the naive and and excuse for opression by the greedy. much of the discussion that goes on within religion does not deal with the attainment of truth, but the control of its congregation. ultimately i do not believe the human race will be free until it ditches the idea of god and takes responsibility for its own actions.

i have stared death in the face many times, and i don't say that out of melodrama. i've been smashed to pieces by the ocean and nearly drowned more times than i care to remember, i've had guns and knives pointed at me and i've been chased through the jungle by big cats. did god keep me alive? no. just me myself and i and my unerring belief in the power of the individual, for which there is no room in relgion.

i would say that i know that god does not care. if he did, he would interfere now and then. like in aceh, in new orleans. he would also be stopping the bad guys, wouldn't he? if god cares then why hitler, why mao, and why bush?

i have not taken the timne out to ask Him because my mental health is in a perfect state and i do not converse with imaginary friends. i'm sorry if this offends but anyone who believes there is somebody other than ourselves responsible for our actions or destinies is deluded. we made the world what it is, we have to live in it and we hacve to sort it out.
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It's All got to go!!!

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#126136 - 05/27/06 11:26 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
SpookyMark Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1350
Loc: new zealand
See, fish, i have no issue with God. I do have issue with the book that claims to "have the answers", which is nothing more that a book created by men with agandas, to control other men, for their own gain.
I become irked when someone asks a question, and everyone stats quoting the bible as being gods word, then suddenly when posed with a curly question the claim abounds "Oh but I cannot speak for God"
It seems apt to quote from "His book" when it suits.
I abhor the hypocracy of those who want to quote the man made scriptures as being an absolute truth, then run away when it gets too hard.

heres another couple of questions:

Why do some christian organisations bow to the stature of the virgin mary, when god apparently said something about bowing to only Him?

Would jesus be impressed with the gold adornments and wealth shown off "in his glory"? The gregarious examples of wealth contrasting to the poverty of the people surely smacks in the face of the teachings of Jesus.

I shall not name names, but I have heard repeatedly persons quoting the bible, which is, if not the word of God, then the doctrine of god. then saying, Oh but i cannot possibly know what god was thinking, I cannot speak for him.

Which is it? Simple question that can surely provide a simple answer.

(The questions I have posted are rhetorical, I dont need you to answer them.)
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"When will my wife understand that the "silent treatment" isnt actually a punishment?"

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#126137 - 05/27/06 11:58 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
Spooky, I'm speechless, you don't want an answer. eek
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"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126138 - 05/27/06 12:40 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
SpookyMark Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1350
Loc: new zealand
Fish, no siree i dont. No big shock there is there?

A shock would be getting an answer that has originated from someones own opinion, with their own deductive thought process.

When I have said "you" in the last sentence of my last post, it was a general "you" not a "You-fish".
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"When will my wife understand that the "silent treatment" isnt actually a punishment?"

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