Cherkee Moon, please don't speak to me like I've never been called a spic before. Like the same nice Anglo/Saxon/Rednecks seen in churches every Sunday never called me a spic, wetback, Jose...

Like no one has ever thought "His name ends in Z so he must have stolen whatever it is that's missing"

I know about bigotry first hand. My family is made up of Spaniards, Taino Indians, and possibly some Jewish.

What I mean by bragging rights is the bragging rights of having conquored new lands. I do understand what you mean about the missionaries, but those were people years ago who were not me. I apologize for how your people were treated, but not all Germans are Nazis, not all Arabs are lunatic Jihadists, and not all Christians are ignorant biggots.

I don't make excuses for their actions, only tell you that more than likely anyone with that twisted a vision of Christianity, was most likely not a Christian. I've said it once and I'll say it again for your sake.

My Lord said "Behold I stand at the door and knock" He doesn't kick the door down and force Himself on anyone, and neither should we.

posted by mrsjf:
and you profess to know gods purpose, do you? there are many reasons why i don't agree with your stance and the one sacrifice is just one of them. overall its the exclusivity that christianity implies and the hypocricy which goes with that which offend me.

you would say your god is one of love and justice while christian criteria consign the majority of the human race to hell. what makes you guys so special to be the 0.001% of the history of the human race to qualify for heaven?

here you are making no sense to me. is what gods fault? why should anything be? responsibility for waht actions? the action of being born outside a christian culture? what category? and what is this god revealing himself tripe? god reveals himself in all sorts of ways, trouble is you guys only seem to recognise the small percentage that falls into your rule book. no its not gods fault its the fault of people who are too narrow to realise there are other valid beliefs out there.

you don't renounce your faith because of other's action in its name. fair enough, but i don't want to submit to a faith which has slaughtered followers of every other faith they have encountered. i don't want to submit to a faith which tells me my daughter was born evil and will remain so because she is not baptized. and i don't want to submit to a faith which has caused hardship for countless poor families by forbidding contraception, and allowed millions of people to die from aids/hiv, also by forbidding contraception. i could go on and on. you obviously have no trouble reconciling your faith with any of the above, but i'm inclined toward the high ground here and saying 'this sucks'...
:rolleyes:

Trust me I understand the whole latino stereotyping as i am engaged to one, I hear insults about him by people daily. I mean no insult to anyone, especially not to you. You prove yourself very dedicated to your chosen religion. that to me is very impressive, not many people can stand firm when it comes to such things. I understand that none of those people who did such things were you, nor did I even imply it, at least I think I didn't. I believe I should have made it clearer that I was refering to a different time period.

In response to: My Lord said "Behold I stand at the door and knock" I have stood in front of that door and knocked, my answer just came in a different form. It is still the same God as yours, just a different name. He preaches love thy neighbor and thy family, just in a different language.

I do apologize if in some way you took it to mean I was directing all those comments at you. However I make no apologies for speaking my mind on certain events. Just as you make no apologies for speaking your mind.

How about we agree on this. My god is the same as yours, just different name, same unknown form. Teaches the same morals, and punishes those who turn their backs on him? Because logically, if one god created all of this, then their cant be more, so at some point God was given different names and different personalities to suit the needs of the people at that time. The different names and personalities are just as prevalent now as they were then. Therefore, we are in debate about the same God, but different branches of religion. It makes no sense to argue about it if you look at it that way.

Now me, I'd love to agree to that.

But that's not the Christian way. The only way is through Jesus. Period. (Until Believer sorts out his issue with King David having been allowed into heaven). And all other faiths are flat wrong.

Judaism, the so called basis for their faith, is wrong also because we don't accept Jesus.

There is another thread about the plurality of all religions and how they can't all be right.

Posted by janimal:
I never professed to know what God's purposes are. I said that I know He has one. It's the same thing as saying, "I don't know why my parents did this or that, or a friend, or a relative, or whomever, but I know they had a good reason." Isn't that the same thing? How many times have people uddered those words?

If you have a problem with hypocrisy, then take it up with those that are hypocritical. Profess to believe one thing & then act completely different. That's hypocrisy. Those are the actions of people, not religion. Yes, they profess to do it in the name of religion, but that doesn't negate the religion, it negates the people's credibility who are taking that action.

Exclusivity - It's a good thing then that my church is all inclusive. It's doors are open to anyone wishing to walk through them & listen & be greeted with warmth from the congregation. That's what made me join. I don't understand how people say Christianity is exclusive. It isn't Christianity that's exclusive. It's people excluding themselves from it b/c they don't believe the message so they choose not to follow it. That is not the fault of anyone else but themselves. And I can't even say fault, b/c it's a choice. Good, bad, indifferent. It's a choice.

I'm no more special than anyone else on this board or anywhere. I just believe differently than other people do. Now why do I believe that Jesus was sent? Why do I accept that message, that gift of redemption? B/C I see the world around me. I see what "humanity" is like. I've been reading the stories of our OT ancestors & I see a pattern. I see that humans really haven't changed. Times have changed, cultures have changed, laws have changed etc., but people in general haven't. Their behaviors are pretty much the same now as they ever were.

People say how can God be so shallow to only have one way for people to come to Him. Maybe God did that so we would have someone to relate to who knows exactly what we humans endure, what it's like to be tempted, what it's like to suffer, what it's like to mourn, what it's like to be a human.

Is it God's fault that people do not believe in Jesus? Some people have said it is. That God should have revealed Himself better. That maybe He should put up big neon signs that say, This is the way! Follow this! That way all people would know that this is indeed the way people should turn.

By your last statement, should I assume that you mean that my belief isn't valid since you don't follow it? You say that I'm narrow & close minded b/c I'm a Christian, yet in the same breath you say that Jesus dying for all is a crock. Why is it okay for others to belittle the Christian faith & say, You're full of it yet accuse us of being intolerant? I guess I don't understand the double standard.

Is it the faith that has done that or people who have done that? It's people, not the religion that has done those things. Each individual needs to be assessed by the things they do, not by what religion they follow. If I take that same stance toward the Islamic faith, then would it be all right for me to say I don't want to submit to a faith that has slaughtered as well? No. If you don't want to submit to Christianity b/c you don't believe that Jesus is the Savior, that's one thing, but when you do it b/c of what others do, that's different. It's all individual. It's our individual choice. I didn't become a Christian b/c of what my neighbor has done or didn't do. I became a Christian b/c of what I believe in my heart.

Sorry, it's the position of the religion that has done these things.

When the church prohibits contraception, it's a religion issue. People have to choose between their personal well-being and the rules of the church.

And in the US, the budding Theocracy, laws are passed that prohibit even the mentioning of contraception as an alternative. So now we have the government promoting the religious viewpoint, to keep our youth ignorant of alternatives.

All for the doctrine of the church.

So now we have a dilemma. The church frowns on contraception, but the girl goes and gets pregnant.

So now we have a teenage girl who could have avoided the pregnancy or course by not having sex, but since she did, she could have avoided it by using contraception.

So now this teenage girl is scared. Her church dislikes unwed mothers, so she considers abortion. Uh oh, another dead end.

I suppose the best alternative for this girl is to have the baby out of wedlock and put it up for adoption, scarring the girl for life.

Either way the girl is emotionally scarred. Where contraception could have prevented the entire situation to begin with.

Should she have kept it zipped up? Absolutely. But they don't follow our rules all the time.

In the old days it days it was easier. She'd be stoned.

Your right mbas...forget the abortion issue. I am certain it would be an extremely hot topic.

Good night.

LL

The problem couldn't have anything to do with Church doctrine, though, right? The church is infallible in all of this.

Well, since it's me who keeps on about those Amalekite babies, I presume that I am one of the people to whom you are directing the question.

We have a number of discussions on abortion, so we are not going to discuss it again on this thread.

My simple, brief answer is that I am against it - but nothing is ever really simple, so have a look at the discussions here:

Topic: Abortion
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000040#000000

Topic: Does the Bible condemn abortion?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000151#000000

Topic: Sacrificing one's son.
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000155#000013

Topic: "Abortion is criminal " - [Jari Iivanainen]
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000210#000000

Topic: Abortion = Child Sacrifice?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000312#000000