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#126149 - 05/28/06 05:49 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
MrsJF Offline
Long Time Friend

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 756
Loc: Pennsylvania
Quote:
Let's say it's inaudible. Does that make it religious?
I don't know of any "delusional" person who hears inaudible voices. As a matter of fact, at the group home I work at, there's a gentleman that claims to actually hear God speak to him. So, I suppose that all us "Christians" should have a brain scan then to see if it's actually a lack of dopamine in our brains that make us "think" that.

Quote:
How did God appear to Moses - audibly or inaudibly?
Good question. I'll have to re-read this story to see. I don't think it explicitly said. It says he heard the voice of God, but whether it was audible or inaudible I don't think was ever determined. I'm assuming when Moses told the crowd that he saw God & heard Him, the people believed that Moses indeed heard God's voice w/his ears.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure the stories claim that Jesus "spoke" to Saul/Paul after he was dead and resurrected.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe Paul had a vision of Jesus speaking to him.
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#126150 - 05/28/06 06:01 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
mbas400 wrote:

"Belief that a "God" or other mysterious being will "answer" you is a belief in the supernatural, hence a superstition"

It is only superstistious if it is not true. I believe that it is true. Am I insane....we will know. This does not mean you cannot try it. No matter what you believe or want to believe, the one true God is part of your peoples history and therefore your history also.

Hearing God can be delusional, and many that claim to hear him are. But not all are. One can hear God through many different ways. Through the scriptures, through what others say and this includes through Christians as well as non-Christians. One can hear him by looking at nature, TV, or dreams. How He choses to communicate is His decision, but He does communicate. He may be speaking to you as you read this. All I ask is that you ask Him.
_________________________
"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126151 - 05/28/06 06:06 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by fish:
... This is why I say for you to go to Him with your questions. There is nothing magical or superstitious about this and it is not a copout because I truly beleive that He will answer you.
Well, I have actually done this - believe it or not - I have 'talked to God' and explained my feelings and apologised if they are wrong and asked for guidance - and I feel more comfortable in my approach to spirituality now, than I have ever done before. The fear and guilt and 'original sin' have gone.
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#126152 - 05/28/06 06:21 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
It is funny mbas400 that I believe in your God and scriptures more than you do. I grew up in a jewish neighborhood in NY and what facinated me the most were the Orthodox and their beliefs. Later I was shocked to find out that not all Jews beleived in God and the Scriptures. It blew my mind that they could read the history of their people and yet believe it to be a fairy tale. For 13 years I worked in a Jewish hospital and found many to be Jews only because their blood. God came to the Jew first, the Word of God came to the Jews first and I cannot understand how some take it so lightly. I do not know if I have any Jewish blood in me. It is possible but not probable. My wife on the other hand may be Jewish. Her last name is listed in the Torah and her grandmother was the splitting image of Golda Meier. That however does not stop me from believing in the Hebrew God. This is also why I cannot understand how anyone who considers themselves a follower of Jesus could have any contempt towards the Jews.
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"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126153 - 05/28/06 06:27 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
PDA, I am glad to hear that. I was raised RC and I understand the fear and guilt they place on people. This was one area God had to help me with. When I first started serving Him, if I did anything wrong, I would run to the priest to confess. But I soon learned that this was not the God I was serving. Jesus paid the price for our sin and the scriptures tell us that in him there is no condemnation. I am not walking around with the fear that if I happen to sin and right after that die, I would go to hell. That is not scriptual.
_________________________
"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126154 - 05/28/06 06:29 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
MrsJF did you change your name because someone thought you were a guy?....hehehe smile
_________________________
"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126155 - 05/28/06 06:52 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
mbas400 Offline
Tin Star Soulmate

Registered: 04/21/06
Posts: 3666
Loc: Texas, USA
Quote:
It is funny mbas400 that I believe in your God and scriptures more than you do
I don't find it funny at all that Christians go out of their way to convert people away from their faith.

"Jew" is a funny term because it refers both to the religion of Judaism, and the culture of the people. We don't have the luxury of being called just "Italian" or "Greek" with the choice of religion.

I don't find your belief funny at all. I find it superstitious.
_________________________
Science flies you to the moon
Religion flies you into buildings

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#126156 - 05/28/06 07:19 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by fish:
PDA, I am glad to hear that. I was raised RC and I understand the fear and guilt they place on people. This was one area God had to help me with. When I first started serving Him, if I did anything wrong, I would run to the priest to confess. But I soon learned that this was not the God I was serving. Jesus paid the price for our sin and the scriptures tell us that in him there is no condemnation. I am not walking around with the fear that if I happen to sin and right after that die, I would go to hell. That is not scriptual.
But for me, the result is to become agnostic.
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#126157 - 05/28/06 07:27 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
I have a great appreciation for the Jews and yes I know that Jews are not only a religion but a culture as well. However, no matter what the two are so intertwined that it is hard for some to separate them. I was raised in a culture that is predominately RC and not to be RC is a curse. When I got baptised as an adult it upset my mother tremendously. The funny (here goes that word) thing about it is that she was never upset when I claimed that God did not exist. Prior to getting baptized as an adult I became a Chrisitan (I prefer follower of Jesus) and I did it as a RC. In my case, I had to become a good RC in order for me to find the truth. As I studied the scriptures (superstition of cause) wink , I realized that there were some errors with the teachings that I could not accept and I left the RC church. Through the years I've learned that none of the churches are perfect. But I do know that God and His Words are. I don't mean to insult you or to convert you to my way of thinking. I would love for you to embrace both parts of being a Jew. God (my superstition again) will do the rest. All I want you to do is meet the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
_________________________
"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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#126158 - 05/28/06 07:43 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
fish Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 328
PDM, at least you are telling me that you believe that there is something out there. It is not wrong to question God’s existence or to be unsure of things. God understands and is willing not just to meet you half way, but all the way. This will happen in due time, just don’t completely rule Him out. He loves you so much. I love my children with all my heart and yet my love for them is imperfect. God’s love is perfect and unconditional. He loves you no matter what, but you still have to choose to accept it.
_________________________
"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." A.W. Tozer

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