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#126459 - 07/12/06 10:01 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
LordsLady Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1926
Loc: Florida
Since I have been a believer for over 20 years, I am confident where my soul is headed. I have no doubt.

Thanks for caring so much where my soul is going. But please don't worry about mine, worry about your own. "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Hebrews 9:27.

Blessings,

LL
_________________________
To one with faith,no explanation is needed.To one without faith no explanation is possible. Aquinas

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#126460 - 07/12/06 10:03 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
mbas400 Offline
Tin Star Soulmate

Registered: 04/21/06
Posts: 3666
Loc: Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Steven Case:
We've had healthy dialogues. You know my religious philosophy and others similar to me; I would be interested in knowing what your religious or non-religious philosophy is.
I am Jewish. More so now, than probably ever before, thanks to this forum.

And I've read the New Testament more than ever before too. Of course no one has liked what I found in there, but that's OK. Even if it's not the totally infallible Word of God, people still believe it.

I am a seeker. The original meaning of the word "Hebrew" is sojourner, traveller, seeker.

Feel free to bash away, with how the Temple is destroyed so I can't make sacrifices anymore for my redemption, etc.

I've heard it all before.

But don't discriminate against me, because Christains are the only people discriminated against, right?
_________________________
Science flies you to the moon
Religion flies you into buildings

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#126461 - 07/12/06 10:04 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
mbas400 Offline
Tin Star Soulmate

Registered: 04/21/06
Posts: 3666
Loc: Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by LordsLady:
Since I have been a believer for over 20 years, I am confident where my soul is headed. I have no doubt.
Confident, but certainly not sure.

Perhaps in another 20 years you will go through another process.
_________________________
Science flies you to the moon
Religion flies you into buildings

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#126462 - 07/12/06 12:15 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
Steven Case Offline
Companion

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Ohio
[quote]Originally posted by mbas400: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Steven Case: [b] So Jesus is telling a short fictitious story to illustrate a point that should not be interpreted literally. Many scholars interpret it as reference to Jerusalem’s destruction in A.D. 70. The punishment of those who rebelled and actively opposed the king was much more severe than that of the negligent servant.[/b][/quote]So again, we have to choose which parts of the scripture are true and which are to be "interpreted." It's a wonder you Christians can function at all with your holy books so confused. But as I've shown here, it doesn't really matter what the books say, you can pick and choose which parts to like. If "scholars" can interpret the parable as the destruction of Jerusalem, an event 70 years away, why can't it be interpreted as Jesus' response to his contemporary rejection. Remember, there were Christians in Jerusalem too in 70AD, so the believers were killed as well. No, Jesus was talking about the Romans and Jews - people who didn't accept him as King. [/b][/quote][quote]Yes, it is called Hermeneutics, a philosophical technique concerned with the interpretation and understanding of texts. It may be described as the theory of the interpretation and understanding of a text on the basis of the text itself. The concept of "text" has been extended beyond written documents to include, for example, speech, performances, works of art, and even events. Thus, one might speak of and interpret a "social text". (Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) That's the way the Bible is written and if you want to correctly read and study it you must invest time in hermeneutics. To preform dentisry well, my field, I must invest time and learn the techniques and theories of the procedures that I perform, along with reading and evaluating the current reseach to determine of the research is valid. If you dont invest time in hermeneutics and original texts, you will fade most people out because of the Bible illiteracy, but not those who are, shall we say more literate, so just expect me or any other that goes beyond just reading it to stop you and look at the writings in greater detail It just like the quote I mentioned the other day, "It's raining cats and dogs", if you do not know the lanuage of the culture that said that, you would, on the surface, say it was a preposterous statement[/quote]
_________________________
We said it in the 60's, it still applys today;
Peace and Love, Not Hate,
Steven

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#126463 - 07/12/06 12:18 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
Steven Case Offline
Companion

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Ohio
Quote:
Originally posted by mbas400:
Quote:
Originally posted by Steven Case:
[b] No you have to look at the orginianl lanugage and realize a fictious story is not the same as an actual event
Ah, now I understand. So anything that doesn't make sense can be a ficticious story.

Very good, that clears up a lot now.

So when Jesus spoke in his parables, they were all just pleasant stories, not meant to teach anything, right?

Good, so glad that's cleared up. [/b]
Quote:
No, the parables always explain somthing important, If I say "the grass is always greener on the other side, you know what it means but not someone from the middle east
_________________________
We said it in the 60's, it still applys today;
Peace and Love, Not Hate,
Steven

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#126464 - 07/12/06 12:26 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
Steven Case Offline
Companion

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Ohio
Quote:
Originally posted by mbas400:
Quote:
Originally posted by Steven Case:
[b] We've had healthy dialogues. You know my religious philosophy and others similar to me; I would be interested in knowing what your religious or non-religious philosophy is.
I am Jewish. More so now, than probably ever before, thanks to this forum.

And I've read the New Testament more than ever before too. Of course no one has liked what I found in there, but that's OK. Even if it's not the totally infallible Word of God, people still believe it.

I am a seeker. The original meaning of the word "Hebrew" is sojourner, traveller, seeker.

smile smile

Quote:
you were doing good to this point, but I don't bash as the next statment states, I may make you defend yourself but never bash
smile smile
Feel free to bash away, with how the Temple is destroyed so I can't make sacrifices anymore for my redemption, etc.

I've heard it all before.

But don't discriminate against me, because Christains are the only people discriminated against, right? [/b]
smile smile
Quote:
I have noticed that you discount much of the New Testament, what about the Old, which we both share together?
_________________________
We said it in the 60's, it still applys today;
Peace and Love, Not Hate,
Steven

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#126465 - 07/12/06 01:46 PM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
mbas400 Offline
Tin Star Soulmate

Registered: 04/21/06
Posts: 3666
Loc: Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Steven Case:
I have noticed that you discount much of the New Testament, what about the Old, which we both share together?
I like the OT better, more historical, less confusion after Genesis, clearer in it's intent. Very few allegorical stories.

The first few chapters of Genesis? All allegory, certainly not literal.

100% inerrant? Absolutely not. It was oral tradition for most part of its existance, and was only codified into canon in the 450's BCE.

So that's even more of a distance than the NT.
_________________________
Science flies you to the moon
Religion flies you into buildings

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#126466 - 07/14/06 12:41 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
Steven Case Offline
Companion

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Ohio
[quote]Originally posted by mbas400: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Steven Case: [b] I have noticed that you discount much of the New Testament, what about the Old, which we both share together? [/b][/quote]I like the OT better, more historical, less confusion after Genesis, clearer in it's intent. Very few allegorical stories. The first few chapters of Genesis? All allegory, certainly not literal. 100% inerrant? Absolutely not. It was oral tradition for most part of its existance, and was only codified into canon in the 450's BCE. So that's even more of a distance than the NT. [/b][/quote][quote]Whether it's allegory or not, no one can prove. But I am an old earth creationist and believe the days quoted are long lengths of time. If you study Astronomy and how the earth would have to form to allow for life, the genesis account matches what Astronomy has said for years. The original word for day is ewy. This word had serveral of meanings: A 24 hour period A lifetime A period of time So the OT word ewy can mean a period of time, now the “Big Bang” that God created fits in well. Could God have created in 7 literal 24 hour days? He’s God of course, but I believe he created like he did so that we could discover it. [/quote]
_________________________
We said it in the 60's, it still applys today;
Peace and Love, Not Hate,
Steven

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#126467 - 07/14/06 12:48 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc.
Steven Case Offline
Companion

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Ohio
:cool: :cool: o English version breaks the Bible differently because we divide the books differently, but the Christian church still has the original cannon, • We divide Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, Esthera Neimya into 2 books where the original had only one book • We make separate books of the minor prophets rather than combining them as the 12 prophets as the Jews do. • Church adopted a “Topical Order” instead of the Original Jewish Chronological order • 1450BC, The tora, law of Moses first 5 books was accepted. 167BC the entire Old Testament had been accepted by the Jewish scholars at that time. • AD70 the old testament cannon was recognized by Jewish scholars, and is the same as we have today. We use the same old testament as the Jews do today :cool: :cool:
_________________________
We said it in the 60's, it still applys today;
Peace and Love, Not Hate,
Steven

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#201506 - 07/23/07 10:03 AM Re: Sin, Repentance, Atonement, Forgiveness, Redemption, Salvation, etc. [Re: Steven Case]
PDM Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22766
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: PDM
But you have to admit that there is a lot of unpleasantness in the Bible"


Originally Posted By: NewKeetMama
It only goes to show what the Bible says is true that "man's heart is deceitfully wicked who can know it?"


Originally Posted By: PDM
"These [certain evils that I have perceived in the Bible] indeed seem a lot worse than being born to love one's own gender, yet some Christians consider homosexuality to be sinful."

[quote=NewKeetMama]It is sinful, just as rebelling against your parents is sinful, just as using God's name in vain is sinful. All sins are equally evil in God's sight, to hate is to murder, to lust is to commit adultery, there are no little sins or big sins. Sinners of any kind are not to be hated and rejected if they seek God, but they should all turn from their sins whatever they are, profanity, gluttony, rebellion, or homosexuality. We are all born to sin of one kind or another; until God opens our eyes and shows us the truth we can do nothing but choose to sin. Even our good is tainted w/ sin, we are benevolent b/c it makes us proud of ourselves, pride is sin, indeed it's the first sin.

.... In the case of the Israelites wiping out whole civilizations, it is because they were all wicked "the sins of the fathers be visited upon the third and fourth generations" something of that nature I assume. In the case of cannibalism, Israel was in rebellion against God and instead of repenting and having the drought lifted, they chose to continue in their sin and in essence chose to eat their own children rather than return to God, another example of the wickedness of men's hearts.


Any more thoughts on sin??
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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