Yes Catlady - the Christian religion is extremely pervasive here. I am all for freedom of religion, freedom to worship, freedom to express love for your religion, etc, etc - but in the heart of the Bible Belt, I think it goes a step further - its just thrown in your face.
Even after living here for 5 years, I still am unnerved whenever a new acquaintance asks me what church I belong to, literally within the first 10 minutes of meeting. I have learned to simply say, I am not active in church - which is not quite as damning as saying I'm agnostic (shhhh....the "A" word) but has the same chilling effect nonetheless. People around here rally around their Christianity, and they honestly do feel like their religion is threatened by secular heathens (like me I guess) - thus there is very much a mentality of "Either your with us or against us.". And the result of that mentality is one of exclusion, and yes, intolerance, for the rest of us. That's my experience anyways - and I am someone who has always been very neutral about religion - I find myself being more judgemental about it - and like I said earlier, the more I learn about Christianity, the less it appeals to me. Mostly because I have really come to believe that Christianity has almost nothing to do with kindness and love thy neighbor, and everything to do with accepting Jesus or else.

Wow!
I'd find that hard to cope with.

I'm intrigued by the attititude to religion in America; we have plenty of religious people in Britain and, as I said before, we even have a state religion, but really, unless you actively join a church where, quite obviously, religion would be discussed, I find that it's rarely a topic of conversation here ~ tho sometimes I do enjoy having the type of discussion we have here.
Others might have different experiences, but I tend to agree that we are largely 'a secular nation'

I only asked my husband and children what their religious beliefs were this week. I had an idea, but I didn't know. I know that some of my friends and relatives attend church and some were 'born again', but for the most part I haven't a clue what most of them believe.

Whether you go to church and, if so, which one you attend is a purely personal matter. It's irrelevant to most things. As you get to know people well, you might find out about their religious ideas, but if someone asked straight out what church you attended, they would be considered a bit odd.


Topic: A secular nation
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000046#000000


I'm just wondering what it's like in northern states?

Well I can only speak for myself - although I spent 30+ years living in 3 northeastern states.
The northeast is still predominantly Christian although there is more Roman Catholic representation. Its WAY more private. You could go years, possibly a lifetime, without knowing a friend's religious convictions. You might have an idea how often they go to church (or other religious service) just depending on how often you did things on the weekends with them. And many people don't seem to attend church at all, even though they still might identify themselves as Christian. There's also (IMHO) more respect for diversity of religion in the NorthEast - just by the sheer number of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Agnostics, Atheists, etc, etc. Even though Christianity is the majority, there is a definite mix and an individual is not automatically assumed to be Christian as they are down South. As far as discussing religion, I just never saw it come up much in conversation in the N.E. unless you were having one of those "deep" type discussions that you have every now and then, especially in college. As a general rule, religion is a private matter, and it would be bizarre if somebody brought it up at a cocktail party. Some of my Roman Catholic friends tended to go to mass more than other friends, so I knew they were Catholic, but even within that, I rarely had discussions about their exact convictions. And these were close friends. Until moving to the South, I just thought religion was a personal matter and that asking about it would be very forward or even rude.

Not so down here y'all. Everybody asks - its a social ice breaker. (Until you tell them you don't go ...) People will ask you what Church you go to just like you might ask somebody where they went to school. And IMHO people love to "flaunt" their Christianity. That may be a bit of an overstatement - but for what other purpose are people driving around with those little fish magnets stuck on their cars? I never saw those fish magnets until I moved here - do you know what I'm talking about? Anyway - it just seems odd to me that individuals love to show all the other drivers on the road that they are Christian - but hey, its a free country (for now) - go for it.

I do see the fish on the cars over here, too, actually.

PDM, We have had several local boys in the armed forces killed in Iraq and a church from Topeka Kansas showed up protesting. While those at the funeral mourned, a small group of protesters celebrated their deaths across the street, holding signs that read "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "Thank God for I.E.D.'s." Insiting God is killing American soldiers in order to punish the United States for its openness to homosexuality, these protesters from Westboro Baptist Church believe that fallen servicepeople should not be mourned. "You turned the country over to fags," members proclaimed. "These soldiers are coming home in body bags." I think what these fanatics are doing is most tasteless and appalling.

There may be some individuals who see Westboro Baptist Church as representative of Christianity but most Christians that I know do not share the same sentiment. I think perhaps such acts as these are turning more Americans away from Christianity. I have posted
links below to give everyone insight as to what is going on here. My son is a soldier and if something should happen to him and these people showed up...I may go postal on them.

I do believe the Northern States to be more tolerant, perhaps because they are better educated. The sourthern states do not spend much money on education. That is just my observation having lived in both North and South.


The Westboro Baptist Church Home Page
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

Wilkipedia on Fred Phelps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._Fred_Phelps

That's disgusting!

Who in their right mind would or could turn to a church like that for comfort in times of loss, yet surely that's how people should feel about a Christian church! For them to disrupt and disrespect a funeral like that is unbelievable.

Victor:

Thanks for your post. I grew up in the NY metro area and yes, there is much more diversity there in many things, religion being one. I liked that. Maybe the amount of diversity also bred tolerance since if you were shoving your religion in someone else's face, you weren't going to able to survive very well. Though there was some intolerance all around. I tended to be a spiritual kid and there were some kids from elementary school who threatended me and vandalized my home in very scary ways and ridiculed my beliefs.

But I have good friends who are Jewish (dated a Jewish man in college for a good long while) and have been to Passover Seders; attended a Buddhist wedding; just was exposed to a lot of different belief systems. And yet....in my stint as an evangelical Christian, I was astounded to find that they didn't believe Roman Catholics (the religion I grew up in) were Christians. Huh?So there is plenty of dissention and misinformation among Christian denominations as well.

I could see how if religion was your "calling card" it would be very awkward and uncomfortable. And there would be social pressure to be very public about it.

One thing I thought of as I read your earlier post about "I have really come to believe that Christianity has almost nothing to do with kindness and love thy neighbor, and everything to do with accepting Jesus or else"...is it might help to actually read the New Testament or at least just the Gospels. This isn't a back door way to evangelize you. It's just a suggestion to read what's in there and what Jesus actually SAID instead of hearing a lot of opinions about what other people think Jesus said. I think there's a pretty big difference, especially when Christianity becomes a showy part of someone's personality.

And Deborah....that's a horrible thing to happen in your town. It reminds me of Christians who bomb abortion clinics. There is no excuse for it. It's plain wrong and though it may come from a "Christian church", IMHO, it sure isn't "Christian" in the true sense of the word.

Catlady - I think it is always good advice to go back to "the source" and do some reading. I'm generally so far behind in work reading that I have little time for "free reading" but I have read bits and pieces of the Bible here and there. I even took a Christianity course and a Judaism course in college trying to get a better feel for these religions (sort of wish I took a course in Islam too these days) - My impression is that there is Christianity in theory and Christianity in reality. The Christianity in theory has many favorable aspects. But I have found that Christianity "in reality" is much more variable - some of it I still like, some of it I really don't. Then I try to figure out which is the "true Christianity" and honestly I just keep coming back to accepting Christ as Savior. That seems to be the thing that all Christians agree upon, and that is the thing that I am most skeptical about. I respect people who believe that and try to live their lives accordingly. But around these parts (Think Buckle of Bible Belt) - I find that Christianity is more like rooting for your favorite football team - and everybody else is the much despised rival. That's just how I feel, and its why I have become more and more comfortable saying I am definitely NOT a Christian. Nonetheless, I do try to lead my life in a way that Jesus would be proud of - not for fear of any eternal damnation, but because I fundamentally agree with his teachings. You don't need to be a Christian to be kind to others. I just don't understand how W can claim to be a Christian on the one hand, but rejoice in the killing of Al Zaqawri. WWJD?

You're right Victor. There are several "Christians" who don't really live as they should, don't really live Christ. Christianity is more about following Christ and living the life He called us to lead, than a social club. As for the death of Al Zaqawri, that's a tough one. On the one hand I'm happy that someone who could potentially mastermind the deaths of my family, or someone's family, no longer walks the earth. On the other hand another person has died without knowing Jesus, and that is never a good thing.

I respect the fact that you're atleast truly searching. I realize you're skeptical and to that I can only say, keep searching. Ask God to reveal himself to you, and then allow Him to do so.

Welcome to the forum LordsLady