Believer, your story is inspiring, I have to admit. It even had me wondering if I was on the right path.

Maybe you are right. Maybe I should just claim to be a Christian and hope.

But if I were to do that and then talked about my interpretation of the Bible, etc, I would be told that I was not a Christian, anyway, so it couldn't work.

As for needing Jesus to die for my sins, of course I have done wrong things - I have a terrible guilty conscience over all sorts of things, but I try my best to be a decent person. Never smoked, no drugs, rarely drink, look after my family, one boyfriend and we've been married for 26 years. I kill ants and I once took a toffee, when I was about 3. Nothing that should warrant the death penalty.

If God is God, then I have to acknowledge that he is way beyond me and my understanding, but if God is God, I would find it hard to believe many of the Bible stories about him.

And that leads me to the Bible. Without the Bible, what knowledge would we have of God and Jesus? ~Yet the Bible is unreliable, so our source of informatuion on God is a difficult one to interpret.

I think it's more likely that we have a sense of God (whether or not 'he' exists) and the ancients wrote their interpretation of this in what would become the Bible (and other religious works). I think that if we sense God, then that's as close as we are going to get to knowing anything about 'him'.

But I might be wrong and the Bible might be right.


(Graven images? I love photography!)

Well that's all fine and dandy, but is that what you're going to tell the God of the universe? "Sorry mate didn't think you existed, can l still get in?"

From PDM:
If it makes you feel any better PDM, I stole a Tootsie Roll when I was about 5 and then lied to my mother when she asked me under direct questioning. I still feel guilty about the whole thing.
As for insects - we have a rule at our house - Any insect inside the house is fair game. Outside the house we leave them alone. Garage is still fair game.

From Somsuj and Believer:
I can't speak for Somsuj, but since I'm agnostic - I can't help but think that God would forgive this one. Is he not a forgiving God? Couldn't he understand my skepticism? Is there not a big difference between committing murder and doubting the existence of God? I just have to think that IF there is a God, and he/she is kind, then he/she could look inside my heart and know that I'm one of the good guys. Why is God so vain that he needs to be worshipped?

From PDM:

***Maybe you are right. Maybe I should just claim to be a Christian and hope.

But if I were to do that and then talked about my interpretation of the Bible, etc, I would be told that I was not a Christian, anyway, so it couldn't work.***

You know, if that was the path you chose, and people told you you were wrong -- that doesn't make them RIGHT. "Christians" are telling other "Christians" all the time that they are wrong. What matters is between you and God.

Graven images? Uh, I think that's only if you WORSHIP the images, not if you just make them. All the RC churches are in BIG trouble, then, with all the stained glass windows, and crucifixes and stations of the cross and sculptures in them.

And if it makes you feel any better, I sideswiped a police car on my way home from church when I was in my late teens. He turned out to be the cop that crossed us going to school, so he let me off with an incredulous look. But I drove the car home and just left it in the driveway and never said a word to my folks (the damage was on the passenger side, so the next driver wouldn't see it when they got in....but I don't know if I was even thinking that far ahead). That night when we were eating dinner, my dad starting ranting and raving about the crazy people in the parking lot who ram their carts into your car, like someone did to ours!!!!

I think I waited about 10 years before I confessed that one!

let me see him first mate . .. . then we can argue.

see - if i do not believe in God, and after death i find out he is there - waiting for me - that is hell for me - what other hell he can send me to ?

but shall cherish the thought of meeting him - at least once.


on a serious note - i do not believe in after-life either - so i do ot really care.

if i find there is an after life - i shall start from scratch, i am not afraid to do so.

Rom 7:1 Now, dear brothers and sisters*-you who are familiar with the law-don't you know that the law applies only to a person who is still living? Let me illustrate. When a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries. So this is the point: The law no longer holds you in its power, because you died to its power when you died with Christ on the cross. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, you can produce good fruit, that is, good deeds for God. When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced sinful deeds, resulting in death. But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit.

Paul goes on to say that there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

This only applies to believers in Christ. Remember, "For God so love the world..... Whosoever believes in him...."

So while believers do not have condemnation under the law, non-believers will be judged under this law.

Ok since this has turned out to be a list your sins fest, here it goes. I paid for a girlfriend to have an abortion, even though I knew in my heart I was sinning against God.

I had 3 guys beat up by my 6 friends because they had ganged up on me during school, and since I couldn't fight 3 older guys twice my size I decided to get bigger people to help me.

I once got into a fight and ended up losing control of my temper. I tossed the guy over a car and pounded his head into the cement.

None of us are perfect, we all have things we're ashamed of. I don't put these things down for any reason other than to show you that if God can forgive me for the things I've done, he can forgive any of you.

Wow, Believer, you have been very open and honest. You didn't have to do that. I respect that honesty, even if the 'sins' were quite serious ones.

My only comment on this is that, for me, if I had done those things, I would need to feel ok with the people involved.

So, if the girl really felt that it wasn't time for her to have a child, the blame isn't all yours ~ especially if she is still comfortable with the decision.

If older boys gang up on a younger child, then maybe they should expect their come-uppance.

Losing your temper in a fight - perhaps he had done something really bad, then, to annoy you so much?

I'm not saying these comments excuse the wrongs, but that, the way I see it, (a) others may have to share the blame and (b) those people (as well as God) need to forgive you in order for you to fully forgive yourself.

You don't have to take any notice of my comments - this is just my response.

[quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] before i delve into the 10 commandments, though i am not a Christian - you have a look at my motto - be good do good - that's exactly what i do. i am a non-believer, so who cares ? old-timers may know that i have left a soft corner about 0.1% belief in my mind that there may be a God . . . and i do not want to re-elaborate that here again - i do not think there is any other God . . . . what say ? [/b][/quote]Already answered that one. [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]2. [i]You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.[/i] [/b] Don't do that (though the reason is different) [/b][/quote]Good enough. [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]3. [i]You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. [/i] [/b] Don't do that [/b][/quote]You’re a better person than me then because I have taken his name in vain, God D@#(, Jesus Ch$(#@... Or are you not counting those? [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]4. [i]Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter nor your manservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.[/i] [/b] What ? I am a doctor - when i am on duty - i save lives on Sundays . . . What is the sabbath day anyway ? is anybody sure - which day of the week it was or is ? [/b][/quote]We’re all guilty of this one. And for the record the Jewish Sabbath is on Saturday. [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]5. [i]Honor your father and mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.[/i] [/b] Great - i have highest regard for them.[/b][/quote]That’s good to hear, I have a high regard for my parents too, but I have dishonored them. I have disobeyed them, I have talked back to them. I’m sure your parents would sing another tune about this one. [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]6. [i]You shall not murder.[/i] [/b]Never did that. [/b][/quote]Same here, but I have hated others, and Jesus equated that to committed murder in the heart. [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]7. [i]You shall not commit adultery.[/i] [/b] Never did that. [/b][/quote]Again same here, but once again Jesus said that if you’ve ever even looked at a woman with lust you’ve committed adultery in your heart. I know I’m guilty of looking with lust, still a no for you? [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]8. [i]You shall not steal.[/i] [/b] Never did that. [/b][/quote]Wow never? Never downloaded music off the net? Never swipe a small piece of candy from the store? [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]9. [i]You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.[/i] [/b] Never did that. [/b][/quote]Never blame another kid for something you did? Teacher: “Who said that?” Somsuj: “It was him not me” Mom: “Who’s been in the cookie jar?” Somsuj: “Not me it was my sister, brother….” Never found yourself in either of those situations? Not even once? [quote]Originally posted by somsuj: [b] [b]10. [i]You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s."[/i] [/b] Never did that. [/b][/quote]Wow never? Never once looked at someone’s hot wife and thought “Man I wish I could have her”. Never once looked at a neighbor’s brand new plasma and thought, “That would look good in my house” Think again and let me know how you fair.