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#129346 - 06/15/06 09:46 AM We're they all on drugs??
mand Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 38
Loc: united kingdom
Okay i wonder sometimes in this day and age if people dabble in drugs they can have hallucinations many people i know have had the same kind of hallucination or similar experiences now back when Jesus was around or even further back to the beginning of time i'm sure there had to be the same ingredients around to make drugs could the people back then be taking drugs but not be aware that the substance they had been taking was causing this to happen, I mean put the wrong ingredient into a meal you have prepared for the whole family and hey presto everyone is going dowally seeing things, hearing thing and i'm not aware if people back then knew what substances did what to the mind??
and maybe a few marajuana leaves made the soup taste a little better eek


I am not saying this explains all the miracles and visions but it could explain some of it. Would like some insight on this if any one can help.

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#129347 - 06/15/06 09:57 AM Re: We're they all on drugs??
PDM Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22766
Loc: UK
I've heard that shamans, and maybe other 'religious' people may have used mind-altering substances.
So, it's possible.

I wonder what was available?
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#129348 - 06/15/06 10:37 AM Re: We're they all on drugs??
Galacticus Offline
Great Friend

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 414
Loc: Thailand
In the middle ages - well into the 18th Century there was a parasite fungus which shrived on Rye.
And this was a strong halluzinogenic - very similar to LSD-25!

People eating Bread contaminated with this fungus (Claviceps purpurea - highly toxic Indolalcaloids Ergotamin, Ergotoxin und Ergometrin) had visions of "the Virgin Mary", flaming Crosses, Kathedrals and because the Bread was always shared - always a group of people had this expirience and nobody doubted it.
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- Patanjali -

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#129349 - 06/15/06 10:45 AM Re: We're they all on drugs??
PDM Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22766
Loc: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Galacticus:
In the middle ages - well into the 18th Century there was a parasite fungus which shrived on Rye.
And this was a strong halluzinogenic - very similar to LSD-25!

People eating Bread contaminated with this fungus (Claviceps purpurea - highly toxic Indolalcaloids Ergotamin, Ergotoxin und Ergometrin) had visions of "the Virgin Mary", flaming Crosses, Kathedrals and because the Bread was always shared - always a group of people had this expirience and nobody doubted it.
Very interesting!

I did my history degree dissertation on religious visions in medieval & early modern Spain.

The information was from Inquisitiional records, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, the descriptions were pretty 'unbelievable', yet these people were obviously not lying. It wouldn't have done them any good to lie - they were already being interviewed by the Inquisition.

I could not think what the explanation might be.

I wish I'd know then about hallucinogenic bread! smile
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#129350 - 06/15/06 10:56 AM Re: We're they all on drugs??
somsuj Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 1402
Loc: England
we still use ergot - to treat migraine.
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#129351 - 06/15/06 01:13 PM Re: We're they all on drugs??
Galacticus Offline
Great Friend

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 414
Loc: Thailand
Quote:
Originally posted by somsuj:
we still use ergot - to treat migraine.
Yep, as far as I know it has been used to treat alcolism and depression patients as well.

@PDM:
I did quite some research on this matter and it appeared that, that what was, in Europe widely understood as the "St.James or St.John's Fire" (free translated from German) was the result of the ingestion of this parasite fungus.

This "Vision" was quite common between the farmers and pagan folks and not seldom a small Chapel was build at the Spot where the "Vision" took place!

In the Middle East the use of Pot and similar Substances was common.

The Shamans of Sibiria still use Ammanita Siberiensis - a toxic Mushroom - but the way they traet it, it's harmless.

The mexican Shamans use Peyotl and Mushrooms.

Intoxication with a large Variety of Substances was/is quite common between "seers" and Shamans to induce "Visions".
_________________________
"By cultivating friendliness towards happiness and compassion towards misery, gladness towards virtue and indifference towards vice, the mind becomes pure."

- Patanjali -

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#129352 - 06/15/06 02:29 PM Re: We're they all on drugs??
somsuj Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 1402
Loc: England
"Saint Anthony's fire" - dry gangrene from ergotism.

also refer to Salem Witch trial - i saw a documentary some years ago - they blamed ergotism.
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#129353 - 06/15/06 03:51 PM Re: We're they all on drugs??
Argyll Offline
Long Time Friend

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 783
Loc: British Columbia, CANADA
Were drugs around during Biblical times? From a biblical perspective: Intro: Gal 5:20 Sorcery/witchcraft, is from the Greek word, "Pharmakia" the same word we get pharmacy from. it means the general illicit use of drugs (same application as today) and the use of drugs to cast spells etc. 1. Ask for discussion: "Who are the two drug dealers of the Bible?" Elymas and Simon: Acts 13:6 ; Acts 8:9 a. Notice this is illustrative of what Gal 5:20 condemns. These men, called sorcerers, magicians, witchcraft. b. Harper’s bible dictionary says: "On the lowest level were the ‘imposters’ (2 Tim. 3:13) who played their tricks as do circus magicians today. Between these were the sorcerers, enchanters, and charmers who could cast spells and knew how to use herbs, potions, and drugs." c. W. E. Vine says, "In sorcery, the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc., professedly designed to keep the applicant or patient from the attention and power of demons, but actually to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer." More here: http://www.bible.ca/s-marijuana.htm
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#129354 - 06/15/06 03:56 PM Re: We're they all on drugs??
kateyes Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 1866
Loc: Michigan
It sticks in my head--St. Vitas Dance and St. Anthony's fire were also attibuted to ergot.

Peyote was used pretty extensively in the
American Southwest by shamans and medicine men--and a variety of tobacco type leaves were used on the plains--and in the east. Hashish and poppy derivatives have been used pretty extensively in the Middle East.

I also vaguely remember as story a few years back that attributed many religious visions to a form of epilepsy.
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#129355 - 06/15/06 04:05 PM Re: We're they all on drugs??
somsuj Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 1402
Loc: England
Chorea sancti viti, also known as St. Vitus dance is a movement disorder related to rheumatic fever - no relation (as i remember of now) to ergotism.

sorry Kateyes
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Believe in nothing unless it agrees with your own reason, knowledge & common sense
Be good, do good

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