Matthew 5 -- I think here Jesus is concentrating on what's contained in someone's heart. And it's also a mix of those who follow Jesus & those who say they follow Jesus. At the beginning of the passage, it talks about his disciples coming to Him & He started teaching them. Who were HIs disciples? I don't think it was just the 12; I think it was all those who chose to follow Jesus around, trying to learn from Him. I pictured it like a classroom session. The teacher guiding the students.

Verse 20 that was pointed out -- For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. What could this be saying? He's talking to his students, those who have chosen to follow HIm & learn from Him. I think He's telling them that you say you follow me, but unless your acts show that, you won't get to taste the kingdom of God. Why did He mention the Pharisees? They were CLAIMING to follow God, but not acting as they should act. They were acting hypocritically. One who says they follow Jesus, yet acts completely contrary to that, does he really follow Jesus? It makes you wonder. It's kind of like a teacher that gives wonderful instruction, you learn from him, & then when you graduate the class, you don't follow anything that your teacher told you. Yet you say you hold high respect for this teacher & every time you need to act, you think of him & act accordingly. But your actions don't show it. What would the teacher think? Did you really learn ANYTHING from what I taught you? You sure don't ACT like it.

MrsJF--as always I appreciate the time and care you put into your responses--I am sure you get tired of my seemingly endless questions. I understand the overlapping in the gospels-and the differences as each Gospel is of course from the perspective of the person relaying the information. All of your interpretations of course make sense--I just have some trouble getting beyond the idea in my head that somehow what Christianity became is not what Jesus intended--that somehow his message got distorted from the "do good deeds, love thy neighbor as thyself, turn the other cheek" message--to the "do as I say and only what I say or go to hell" message. I believe in God--I think Jesus was a wise and holy man--I do not know that he was divine, or an incarnation of God-or frankly that he thought he was divine--or if that was something that others added later to legitimize(thats not really the word I want) his teachings. I think his teachings could stand on thier own without borrowing from others (ie several other cultures having Gods who were resurrected). That leaves me in a real muddle, I know. I am not foolish enough to think this is some great insight that has occurred only to me--I am sure others have asked the same questions--I am just trying to figure out how they reconciled all these ideas.

Kateyes, I never tire of your questions.

You and me and about 4 BILLION people on the planet don't recognize the God-ship of Jesus.

The Jesus Followers are really a minority when compared to the rest of the world population.

When we read science fiction stories we are expected to "Willingly Suspend our Disbeliefs." In order to enjoy the story, we need to suspend the fact that cars don't fly, robots can't talk, etc.

Believing that Jesus is a God, and all the other fantastic events that supposedly happened (resurrection,etc.) requires that same willing suspension of disbelief.

Otherwise, the whole faith falls apart.

Can not say you're wong about what Kierkegaard called the "leap of faith." But there's a part that you overlook, also. If a car did fly, and a robot did talk to you, you would wonder if you had become delusional, or if there was something at work that you didn't understand, right?

I guess there are many who call themselves Christians because they were baptized into the faith as children. And others because they have done what the Bible says to do, and have willfully suspended disbelief, as you have said. And who's to say that will not be honored by God?

But there's another element as well. As I've said before, many Christians have had spiritual experiences which convince them of Jesus' divinity and/or of the existence of God. And just because another doesn't experience the same thing doesn't mean that it is wrong.

I believe that Jesus the man is not the Path. The Spirit of the Messiah descended on the man during the baptism and made him into Christ (which seems to be one of the things all the Gospels have in common). many of the teachings of Christ have been translated and retranslated as well as purposely distorted.

But I believe that certain things have remained undistorted, like the times when Jesus says 'there is much I have to tell you, but you can not bear them now', and 'I speak to you now in parables, but the time cometh when I will speak to you plainly of the Father'.

The Gospel of Judas has survived the past couple thousand years or less. With better translating techniques and more reliable methods of retaining and passing information we will now be faced with a new perception of the Spirit of the Messiah that will show that Christ the Spirit did not have a race or faith just a message.

We are all created by the same God and inhabited by the breath of the same God; by doing right by others we are doing right by God. If we are not doing right by others, no faith ['many will perform miracles in my name but I will tell them I do not know you'], or place of worship or method of spritiual ascension will bring you into the kingdom of heaven.

The teachings of Christ are the only path to Salvation; that is why His teachings (once stripped of the taintings of man) resemble the doctrines of many other cultures and righteous paths. One God, one Messiah, many paths to that one Door.

A couple of relevant quotes from Bishop Spong:


'All of those are paths that humans have walked toward God. And they're not enemies, they're just different paths. But Matthew has turned that in such a way that you're either on my side or you're my enemy.' ~ John Shelby Spong


'All religion seems to need to prove that it's the only truth. And that's where it turns demonic. Because that's when you get religious wars and persecutions and burning heretics at the stake.' ~ John Shelby Spong

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/john_shelby_spong.html


See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong

I think, if we could be sure of what really has been left undisturbed in the Gospels, we might have a better chance of knowing what to believe.

Not for the first time, as I read what you have to say, I find myself amazed that a lot of what you say are things that I either have come to believe, or have wondered about.

The difference for me is that while I don't think it endangers my path to God, I can't give full assent to the idea of the Spirit of the Messiah filling the human Jesus. I have wondered, but I also wonder if it could have been at "conception," or at the time that Jesus was missed by Joseph and Mary, and said that he was about his Father's business.

But I am not willing to renounce the idea of Jesus as the actual Son of God, either.

We don't seem to have DNA sample of either Joseph or of God.

But I'm going to say something that will sound quite heretical. I don't think it matters. I know that many mainstream Christians feel that there is no other way than fully believing in Jesus as the Christ as laid out in the Apostles Creed. But I keep coming back to the way Jesus dealt with others and the main things he had to say.

Over and over again, I see him defining faith as a simple thing. I don't think claiming full faith in complex and complicated theological or philosophical positions and calling them faith in Christ is what God requires of us in order to be children of God.

I think faith in Jesus, faith in Christ, and faith in God is a very child-like thing. However we call to Him, He is there. And since we don't see him nowadays, we hug one another.

As you have said, doing right by others is where it's at, in my opinion.

i don't think its heretical, just sensible. it's all about being nice to each other, and the technicalities can be safely ignored.