We have been discussing the current problems in the Middle East and I Love Gus & Milo said this:



Topic: Israel & The Middle East Question
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=156548&fpart=1


What are people's thoughts on this aspect of the subject?

I like that interpretation! All from Abraham's one mistake.

Interesting.

Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23  But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24  Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25  Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26  But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27  For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband." 28  Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29  But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30  But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." 31  So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

I'd say that the Arabs are ethnically probably closer to the original Hebrews than most of the people who call themselves Jews today. The majority of modern Jews are predominantly of European stock, and are a religious group more than an ethnic one.

Come on! Does anyone actually believe that the modern Jews are all descendants of Isaac, or that the Arabs are descended from Ishmael?

I'd say that the modern mess in the Middle East was at least partly created by the British, not by Abraham. It was we who promised the same patch of land to the Jews and to the Arabs back in 1917. At that time, the Jewish population in Palestine was pretty small. We oversaw mass Jewish immigration to the place before and after the Second World War, then in 1947, when it all went to hell and the Jews and Arabs started fighting it out (ooops, didn't see that one coming) we got out fast.

The whole thing, in a way, is a nasty hangover from the British Empire.

The blood relationship of Israel, Palestinians and surrounding neighbors is a little bit more complicated than just the relationship of Ishmael and Isaac. The Moabites and Ammonites are descendents of Abraham’s nephew Lot. Ismael is the son of Hannah. After Sarah died Abraham took Keturah as his wife and she gave birth to six other sons, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. These Abraham sent away from Isaac, however maybe it was not far enough. Isaac had two sons of which Esau was the father of the Edomites. Throughout Israel’s history you will find the descendents of most of these men were Israel’s enemies. The relationship problems did not start with Joshua crossing the Jordan, they started hundreds of years before during Abraham’s time. Jealousy and strife within Abraham’s immediate family thousands of years ago is the cause of these modern day problems. End time prophecy involves the descendents of many of these men.

There is more to this 'Problem' in the Thread "Abraham"...

check this out (last of my post\'s):

See Also:

Topic: Believer 101 (A look into the mindset of a believer)
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/u...amp;p=39#000572

Abraham and Sara could not have children. However, the Lord made a covenant with Abraham and promised him that his descendants would become a great nation. Abraham and Sarah being elderly, did not believe they would be able to conceive. They took it upon themselves to make God's plans for them become reality. Sara, who at that time was called Sarai took matters into her own hands and asked her husband Abraham (called Abram at the time) to sleep with her maidservant Hagar. Abram took her suggestion and slept with Hagar. That union conceived Ishmael. When Sara did finally conceive and gave birth to Isaac, this created a rift between Sara and Hagar. This rift ended in Hagar and Ishmael being sent to live somewhere else. These half brothers became what is today the Arabs(Ishmael) and Jews (Isaac). The battle is still raging over one man and one woman's decision to take matters into their own hands and not trust that God would do what he promised.

As Spiderman says "with great power, comes great responsibility". This is all too true. For to whom much is given, much is required. We have been given so much, especially here in the USA. We are blessed because we support Israel.

"Where you go, I will go and where you stay I will stay, your people will be my people and your God will be my God" Ruth 1:16

Blessings,

LL

PDM: I did not personally attack anyone. I called terrorists hateful. I have never, to my knowledge met any terrorists, but their title alone tells me I don't want to meet any. My point was in defending Israel against what janimal stated. He stated Israel deserves the bombs dropped on them.

I apologize if my passion for Israel comes across too strongly. When fish and I visited Israel two years ago, we felt at home. There is something about that country which calls out to believers and makes you feel like one of them, makes you relate to their hurts, their struggles, etc. Israelis live in constant fear for their lives. Their children live in fear of constant attack by the many countries which surround them who are all out to wipe them off the face of the earth. You cannot help but feel compassion and sympathize with a country that struggles like that every day.

As Believer stated, no one deserves to have bombs dropped on them. However if a country is attacked it would stand to reason they would fight back.

Blessings,

LL

So, if God was all powerful, could he not have prevented Hagar to conceive also?

could he have arranged for Ishmael to be killed?

Was he too busy killing the righteous people like Ryan Hall instead?

Or perhaps "God" was playing with his creations again, the same way a boy will mix up the ant farm just to see them fight.

This is your God, a God who allows this to happen. If he was as all powerful as you believe, he could have stopped this long ago. Instead, he ALLOWED this continue, unchecked, for thousands of years.

This is the GOD you WORSHIP! You Praise for his wisdom! You accept without question his judgement!

This God is a lunatic, and YOU WORSHIP HIM!