Maybe the Christians are right after all, maybe we are getting ready for the big war. The Pope, in his visit to Germany quoted a 14th century Byznatine Emperor: “Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” And he dropped the word "jihad" in there as well. And the typical Islamic responses: “I call on all Arab and Islamic states to recall their ambassadors from the Vatican and expel those from the Vatican until the pope says he is sorry for the wrong done to the prophet and to Islam, which preaches peace, tolerance, justice and equality,” leader of the Kuwait Islamic Nation Party. “The pope’s statement is highly irresponsible,” said another ranking Muslim, Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, an Islamic scholar. “The concept of jihad is not to spread Islam with the sword.” “The global outcry over the calamitous cartoons have only just died down and now the pontiff, in all his holiness, is launching an attack against Islam,” a Moroccan newspaper wrote. “I do not think any good will come from the visit to the Muslim world of a person who has such ideas about Islam’s prophet,” Ali Bardakoglu, a cleric who is head of the Turkish government’s directorate of religious affairs, said in a television interview there. “He should first of all replace the grudge in his heart with moral values and respect for the other.” The pope was scheduled to go to Turkey in November. More love from the Vatican! The leader of the Christian Church.

Mbas:

Maybe everyone should sit down and share a nice bowl of Baba Ganoush, some good wine and a couple of good hits off the hookah and just chill a little! Throw in a dark haired belly dancer dressed in red and doused in perfume for good measure. Peace will be just around the corner!

Mark

And hey...I'm not GOING to Turkey in November, but I am EATING turkey in October! So...the pope and I have a lot in common, huh?

Mark

something i love about the vatican is that you don't even have to go to any trouble to surreptitiously undedrmine them. again and again the show what utter utter xxxxxxx they really are. it's pretty clear what they and those who hang on their every word are really about - be with us or be damned. except, its not their words, but gods, isn't it... i voz onlee following ordarz !!!! maybe they should adopt heil benedict as the new official catholic greeting. and to top it all off it gets garnished to the hilt with 'the love of christ' when its really only about hatred and contempt for 'them'. it makes me puke!!

:p :p

ps - if you see the pope lobb a kebeb at him for me. should look good on his nice pure white frock.

...I agree on that one with Argyll!

And like to further represent a different point of view:

"What goes around, comes around!"

He quoted a 14th Century Byzantine Emperor!

Excerpt from his (the Pope's) speech:

"n his lecture, the Pope quoted, among others, the 14th century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologos who wrote that Mohammad had brought things "only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The Pope, who used the terms "jihad" and "holy war" in his lecture, added in his own words: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

Benedict several times quoted Emperor Manuel's argument that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable and that acting without reason -- "logos" in the original Greek -- was against God's nature.

At the end of his lecture, the Pope again quoted Manuel and said: "It is to this great 'logos', to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures."

Source:

He did NOT make this up by himself, it was a quote! Under the pretext to invite the muslim world to a constructive discussion on this world wide problem - maybe with the agenda on the worldwide Terror spread by islamic radicals.

Which makes his quote look quite diferent!

And not to forget, it's the same with the danish Cartoons, what ever they say is supposed to be accepted, swollow it and "shut up!"

Whatever comes in some sort of statement from the "West" or the realm of Christianity is damned!?????????

Who's or what's wrong here - why is every Statement, how horrific it ever might be as "We have to wipe Zionism off the Face of the world.." or "I want proof that the Holocaust ever existet!" O.K. and something comin' from the "West" not?

I really don't get it!

However I don't believe in confrontation, but can very well understand what and why he said, what he said, why always make apologies, why always back off - hasn't "the West" more than once reached a hand or two?

How many Mosques are in the western hemisphere, just recently being build and how many churches are there in the islamic world? Anybody?

What is this all about I wonder?

Why they 'feel' always 'victimised' at the smallest comments?

Mohammed and his followers left a bloody trail, so the Church, and there ARE sures in the Qur'an which glorify the sword and the killings of "Infidels", so what?

Well, if we are going to look back into history and bloodshed, then we need look no further than the Inquisition!


Such hypocrisy.

I see no reason to castigate the pope for telling the bare truth.

Indeed what good has come of the world's youngest major religion ?

Indeed this is a time when we need a dialogue with "reasoning" and "logic" at the fore-front.

Certainly, Somsuj, I agree, dialogue should be helpful ~ but is there any real chance of understanding between people with such fixed views and so much hatred?

A very selective version of the truth, somsuj. As PDM mentioned, he could just as easily have mentioned all the bloodshed his own church has been behind, from the inquisition to the crusades.

What good has come from the newest religion?

Let's not forget that back in the Middle ages the Muslims had an advanced civilization that made many advances in science, astronomy, mathematics, etc. It was also a tolerant civilisation where Jews, Christians and other religious minorities prospered. It was the Christians who were backwards, scrappy and violent back in those days, and just look at what happened to Spain after the Moors were driven out: Jews and Muslims were killed and driven out and the inquisition ensued.

Today, the tides of history have changed and seem to be giving us the mirror situation. Ultimately, it's not because this religion is better or worse than that one, but simply because of politics, economics, demographics, etc. That is history and it has always been thus.

This kind of chest thumping about "my religion is better than yours" is really just a sign of decline and regression to barbaric old ways. Hardly what the world needs right now.

From my experience in this forum - none.

I see no reason why those need to be mentioned in this context and what exactly that mention would achieve.

This kinds of myths are propagated to confuse us.

Re Middle age, which also is referred to as DArk Age : what dark age ? Dark age refers to the lack of history, not lack of knowledge.
Which civiliazation/empire kept the knowledge of the Greeks ? Byzantian Civilization/empire which survived until the 4th Crusade.
Where from the "Arabs" acquired the knowledge ?
1. After annexing Persia - they accessed the "Greek School" established by Khousroo with the help of Byzantian Scholars.
2. After annexing Alexandria - they accessed the famous Library of Alexandria
Both events are of 7th Century AD.

Tolerance ? Read the spread of Islam as it happened by Md bin Qasim to India in early 700s. The King of Sindh was vanquished and then what happened to the populace ?

"Middle Age" and history is not restricted to Europe and the Levant only - there are places like India where middle age was as bright as anything . . .

That I may agree with.

While that is truth, this kind of alarmist response from that section to anything that might refer to the them in a slightly tangential way is hardly what the world needs right now too.