I've started a new thread:

Topic: Why is 'Al-Qaeda' so anti-American?

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000654

An interesting and relevant article: [i]'The world is still talking about the pope’s recent speech—a speech so boring, convoluted and oblique to the real concerns of humanity that it could well have been intended as a weapon of war. It might start a war, in fact, given that it contained a stupendously derogatory appraisal of Islam.' '..the main purpose of his speech was to chastise scientists and secularists for being, well, too reasonable. It seems that nonbelievers still (perversely) demand too much empirical evidence and logical support for their worldview.'[/i] [Sam Harris: ‘God’s Rottweiler’ Barks] http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060916_sam_harris_rottweiler_barks/

PDM...have you read his speech?

He did hold this speech, in his mothers tongue german, which is mine, I surely can't share one single word of the quoted Mr.Harris!

And remember he quoted a Quote, from a 14th Century Emperor.

On this regard have 'the muslims' involved in the riots, shooting of a 67 year old nun, burning of pope - effegies, arson attacks on churches only double underlined what this Quote, quotes.

Very sad, indeed!

Can anyone refer me to the actual speech that the Pope made, please?

I would like to see the words for myself ~ both in German and with an English translation.

I agree unfortunatly any time anyone criticizes Islam or the inner workings of the terrorists the only thing we hear is "Islam is a religion of peace, they do not represent us."

Where are the detractors? Where are the ones who are publicly denouncing the middle east extremists? Why aren't the muslims in the US, and Europe screaming in the streets to their brothers in the Middle East to stop the bloodshed?

That is what bothers me. Without the willingness to admit wrong doing there will never be dialog.

Moslem people are condemning this behaviour, but the extremists seem to have the louder voice and there will always be suspicion, I think, of 'immigrants' ~ especially in the current climate. Also, since some non-Moslems are tarring them all with the same brush, a number may resort to violence in reaction to that negativity.

Here's a quote, about the London bombing & its aftermath, from a young Moslem living in Britain:

'A few Islamic clerics called the suicide bombers "martyrs" but 99% of British Moslems were appalled by the atrocity.

'Now the attitude towards Muslems has got worse. Also Muslims' attitude to British people has got worse. Even moderate Muslims are turning to terrorism to prove themselves. They think they may as well support it because they are stereotyped anyway.'

Somsuj has repeated some links for me:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5348456.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_09_06_pope.pdf


Thank you

My pleasure - I tried to answer your PM, but your inbox is full. . .

Sorry, I've deleted some messages ~ I think I need more space!

This morning I read all the post on this thread and find myself agreeing with Som and Galacticus. I find that I agree with them not because I am on the side of the Pope and Christians or because I am against the Muslims. It is not a matter of religion, nationality, beliefs or culture, Pope made a statement and whether one views it as right or wrong it does not give anyone a reason to commit violence. If anyone feels the Pope was wrong, than verbally and publicly criticize him but there is no need to destroy property or hurt and kill others. If all that is being said of Jesus and Christians were said of Mohammed or the Muslims, there would be a blood bath. Some continue to say that only a small minority of the Muslims are terrorists and I agree. However, why doesn’t the majority of the Muslims speak out against the terrorism committed by the so called minority. Why do they sit by, watch and allow the minority to commit barbaric acts in their name without objecting. Sometimes it is much easier not to get involved and close our eyes to what is done to others. However, we, as citizens of this world, need to speak up against acts of terrorism or injustice regardless of what religion or nationality commits them. We cannot afford to sit on the fence wishing it will all just go away. Martin Niemöller said it best when he wrote: [i]“When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.”[/i]