Originally posted by Believer:
Oh it's not just Christianity MBAS, most religions have a crime and punishment aspect to them. I was listening to an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi yesterday, and his statements sound oddly familiar. Essentially he stated that God has promised redemption of sins, and that those who deny that redemption will end up in hell, while those who repent and follow God will end up in heaven.

Originally posted by Believer:
The debt of sin against God must be paid to God, so in sending His Son, or rather in God becoming man and paying that sin debt once and for all He is in effect paying the debt by His life for ours. It's called grace, giving us forgiveness even though we don't really deserve it.

Now animal sacrifice was not for the forgiveness of sin, but for the covering of sin. Again blood is the source of life, and in order to repay the debt, innocent blood had to be spilt in place of guilty blood. This was never meant to be a permanate solution. It was meant as a means to cover our sins until God Himself could come and die to forgive our sins. Yes the sin debt was paid to Him, by Him, so that He could get the glory for having saved us. So that we could look to Him and say "Look at how much our God loves us that He would forgive us our sins without our deserving forgiveness."

Originally posted by Believer:

Quote:

Originally posted by PDM:
[b]
If someone does something unforgivable, then why forgive it?

It could be argued that God is wrong to forgive the unforgivable.

So if you child came to you later in life and said mom, I got a little drunk last night drove home and ran into a family of five, and now they're all dead. Or mom I got angry a someone and killed them. Will you stop loving your child?

I don't really think that there is anything that a parent wouldn't forgive of their child. You see it every day on tv, serial killer gets busted and what does mom say? He's a good boy, he's just misguided. That is a parents love. [/b]

Originally posted by Believer:


So now you're judgeing God's judgement?

Am I?

I said:

'.. he chose Lot, who gave his daughters to strangers for sex. And he chose Moses, who told the soldiers to keep the young virgins for their own use.

'And I have not yet heard an argument good enough to excuse mass murder ~ including infanticide.

'Either God made some very bad choices ~ choices not to be expected of a perfect God ~ or these are not stories of God'


Maybe I am judging God's judgement ~ or maybe I am not.

Do you, personally, think it's ok for a man to offer his daughters to strangers for sex?

Do you, personally, think it's ok for soldiers to massacre a village, keeping only the young girls, for forced sex?

Would men who behaved like this be the type of people whom you would consider good, decent & trustworthy? Godly?

Why would God choose them especially, I wonder?

Or did he?

Maybe he didn't.

Maybe these are just folk tales with self-justification thrown in.


See that's the problem I see with most who don't accept the Bible. It's the old mentality of don't judge me for disobeying your rules, instead conform to my rules.


Maybe I'm, being a bit dense, but I don't follow this. Sorry.


But, to continue with my own thoughts on this ...

Why should the Bible actually be about God, rather than about an ancient tribe's interpretation of God?

I think that this is more likely, because I cannot believe that a perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, eternal God, if 'he' exists as a 'personal being', would do these things, or make these choices.

Indeed, if 'he' is there and is able to understand these beliefs, then he must feel disappointed & insulted, that mankind sees him in such a negative and petty light. Don't you?