Originally posted by janimal:
so when you've closed the mexican border, who will come and work on your farms and clean your toilets? unless of course you want to put the army there to cut down the rednecks who are using illegal immigrants for target practise. before you get sanctimonious about your borders, remember how you guys came by your country in the first place. invasion murder genocide and theft. and now you whinge about migrants from central america? get some perspective!!
First - Mexicans have an unfair advantage over women in Afhganistan, blacks from the Sudan, Central Americans living in truly dangerous situations, and Chinese people who wish to leave Communism. It's called LEVELING the Playing Field. It's called Affirmative Action in immigration. Some woman in China can't swim the South Pacific and walk into L.A. like she owns the place. Ditto a man from Pakistan (albeit some walking and a swim across the Atlantic).
First part B- I'm not whining about immigrants from Central America. I'm not whining at all. I just want the laws to be upheld. We have laws here. If everyone BUT the ten million Americans in this country here illegaly want the laws upheld - then in a Democracy (not sure if you are familiar with its' nature) the majority favor for an EXISTING law must prevail. Just because King George says it should be overturned and those who broke the law given amnesty from BREAKING a law - doesn't make it so. Let a white guy break the speeding limit by 5 mph and see if King George comes to HIS defense. Not gonna happen.
First part C - Let me understand this . . . you say you have experienced racism/oppression - yet it's ONLY bad when American's do it. So Mexico is off the hook? Mexico can treat someone from El Salvador as a sub-human - accuse me of doing the same thing because I want laws upheld in my country - but I'm whining when I point out that Mexico needs to turn the mirror on itself.
With all due respect - that's bananas!
Second - if the former President there . . .Fox - is an indication of the people of Mexico (and I understand he was well-loved) then as a person who walks around this country as a descendent of slaves . . . I'm a little - no - more than a little fearful - of that level of bigotry being allowed into our country.
And janimal - if you are familiar with the American/Mexico Illegal immigration issue - you know darn well that man hates, looks down on and could care less if they 'starve' *insert derogatory and inflammatory racist word her* 's. Just because he didn't 'say' it out loud - doesn't mean he doesn't say it when in his inner league. Probably when they are sitting around laughing at black face caricatures on Mexican television.
(And you know DARN well that's high humor in Mexico . . . don't even try to deny it. I was in Cancun two years ago and saw it myself. So don't lie to me about the Mexican 'view' of people of African descent. We are n-----rs to them.)
That said - if ALL Americans are to be dismissed as 'losers' who 'rape the universe' based on Dummya's actions and a few Dead White Men from the 1600's and 1700's . . . Americans (be they black, white, etc. etc.) have the right to look at a few people's actions/words towards us over the years and present (Palestinians cheering in the streets when the World Trade Center fell to the ground with one of my best friend's in it anyone?) throughout the world and condemn entire countries. Turn about is fair play.
BTW - I wasn't alive when any of *that* happened. I descend from Cherokee Indians. Seminole Indians (never signed a treaty with the US Government). Slaves. German Jews who came here in the mid 1930's to avoid being murdered. A French man who came here in 1918. . . and one Anglican Irishman that was burned out of his home in the early 1700's Settled in VA and never owned a slave. His son ran from the Civil War (he was a physician) after Antietam. He deserted from that sheer utter stupidity.
So I'm not taking ownership for that stealing, plundering and being thieves. Tell that to some WASP in Idaho but it's not gonna fly with me.
Third - here's a better idea to get those toilets cleaned . . . not that it matters to you because you aren't an American - but - perhaps we could and we SHOULD raise our Federal Minimum wage to $13 an hour. That to me seems like a great idea!
Pay a man/woman a wage of some level of dignity and they'll do at times what is an undignified job.
i have a better idea - bring the troops home from the middle east, send them to washington and get a military coup on the go. it can only improve your government.
Not sure where you are from - but that doesn't benefit me. It benefits everyone who wants to see Americans killing each other, in poverty, starving . . . it benefits EVERYONE who wants to BREAK democray. Everyone who hates us for what are NOW our LIMITED freedoms as based on the Patriot Act. Everyone who hates us infidels would love that.
Why should we make those who hate us happy? I say living well, peacefully, in prosperity is our best revenge.
I'm not sure if you are aware of the American Political Process - but a change is coming my friend. We Dems are gonna push, pull and create the 'coup' of which you speak this November. When we smash the party of Guns, God, and Gays and replace them with party which preaches Peace, Privacy and Prosperity. Just by pulling a lever. A little tiny, isty bitsy lever.
We'll really 'overthrow' when we get good solid Liberal Democrats (who harken back to those DWM's your railed against) in office who will repeal The Patriot Act, bring our troops home, raise taxes to erase our national debt to every single country in the world (hence why Dummya hates American People but kisses Fox's and Saudia Arabias' butts every chance he gets), create jobs and stimulate the economy.
And don't tell me we don't prosper when the party of Peace, Privacy and Prosperity is in office. We did for 8 years in the 1990's.
dream on. far from cleaning up the remnants of imperialism, the usa is a remnant of imperialism, and it is trying to revive its own version in its neo imperialism. i agree that it is for their own benefit, i just don't think there is any cleaning up involved. its pure self interest. the usa does not get involved unless it has a vested interest, in this case their only ally in the most oil rich region of the world. as long as the money flows they do not care who get annihilated along the way.
Touche my friend re: dreaming on. Since you talk about America's own benefit. . . . how do you explain France and Holland during the American Revolution. BTW - the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776 . . . our government was not recognized by ANYONE in Europe until several years later. Anything before 1776 cannot be blamed on present day Americans . . . blame it on the British, French and Spain. And those DWM's that 'made it in this country' - they really DID come here for religious freedom from the Crown. Until World War II - when the rest of the world thought we were a bunch of candy you-know-what wimps . . . and Japan was just dumb enough to step on a rattlesnake's tail . . . we never received any kind of respect. We took on a 'leadership' (rolls eyes and drips in sarcasm) role, and really - what's been in it for us? At the end of the day . . . nothing but an intense dislike for the average working Jane and Joe in everyday America.
Then we get involved - and for Crise' Sakes! The Spanish Inquisition was our fault. When witches were burned at the stake in Europe - it was our fault. When the Huns pillaged? Our fault. The War of the Roses? Our fault. The Crusades? Our fault. Nero - he was an American. I'm just waiting for the day some whack job and half blames the crucifixion of Jesus on us. I just KNOW it's coming! LOL! Do you want me to continue? Because I love the way history is being re-written. Let me know when the book gets published! I'd love to read it! ROTFL
Heck! We couldn't have had slavery with out Portugese, Spanish, Dutch and British folks willing to ply the trade. But here I am - the descendant of slaves and it's my fault. Who'da thunk it. Go figure. My dad's parents are probably rolling over in their graves at the idea that they should have to apologize for and take OWNERSHIP
for what was perpetrated against their
you cannot view america as seperate from european imperialism as it only emerged from the very same a couple of hundred years ago or so. forgive me i forget when the declaration was signed. i agree that the situation was artificially escalated in 47 - don't forget that the usa was one of the countries which voted in favour of partition. i also agree that the region has been a collection of warriong tribes since time immemorial, but look - europe only stopped being like that 50-60 years ago, so why shouldn't the middle east be able to be stabilized? not that it ever will while the west takes it upon itself to decide the fate of every nation from moroco to pakistan.
I've so many thoughts on these statements. I have not forgotten it . . . I love and worship at the altars of Truman and Roosevelt.
Not only did Truman go along with the formation of the state of Israel - he shot himself in the foot for it politically (this country was and remains highly anti-semitic at a simmering under the surface level - hence why we turned away the Spirit of St. Louis). He also (I'm going to beat you to the punch on this) ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
RIGHT after the bombing of Japan - he desegrated our military (thanking blacks and other minorities who gave their lives when they couldn't even vote in this country), went to astump speech in in the deep South and told the Dixiecrats if you're going to be racist - you can't be Democrats, and said, "Yes we bombed them. And now we're even."
Every single person in history has a yin and yang. From a world approach - he was wrong for Israel and Japan.
From a daughter of a former armey officer who is black male, raised in the deep South under oppression you can't even begin to comprehend unless you TOO are a black American male who was raised under the Jim Crow Laws . . . he was really cool guy. He was one of the good ones.
Which then makes me trail off onto the last statement re: the Mid-East can't be stabiliized until . . .
So wait - damned if we do and damned if we don't again.
Janimal - you might not like this. .. but you are an American Democrat. A far left one. But I've learned (as left as I lean) that if you go too far left you end up in chaos and oppression.
You just made my point.
We have NO BUSINESS being there. It's a waste of money, time, human lives. The Islamic extremists are going to continue their war on the Iraqi people as long as the US maintains it's presence there. They are dying by the thousands. And whether we stay there or come INTO Lebanon - we don't help matters. People are dying just because American Soldiers have a presence in their country. I say - when the Iraqis want Democracy - they'll die for it . . . on their OWN terms. When the people of Lebanon and Israel figure it out - they'll figure it out on their OWN terms.
I think it's very clear from reading a variety of your posts - not just this one - that you represent the general world view of the average American.
Forgive me but, "I'm just a middle class bi-racial woman trying to make it in Bridgewater NJ." LOL!
That means nothing to you - and a lot of people in the world. I'm the face of evil in this world.
I'm the face of evil because I don't want a coup. I don't want to live like DR Congo or any other nation in this world that every day a Political leader dies so someone else can be in charge. I like the fact with Close Control over our Elections (and I mean CLOSE) I can create a 'coup' just by going into the voting booth and pulling a lever. I can vote against those who want to deploy our military in battles that are not our own, who wish to decimate the Constitution/Bill of Rights and play RIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO HATE AMERICANS, and who won't uphold the laws on the books in our hand (Immigration and whatnot).
I'm the face of evil because according to many fundamentalist practitioners of Islam in the Middle East - I'm an American Woman Whore.
I'm the face of evil because I grew up in a home where my parents worked hard, asked no one for any handouts, took care of their own, prayed to a Christian View of God at dinner each night, had a bike and barbie dolls.
I'm the face of evil because some Dead White Men came here in the 1600's.
I'm the face of evil.
Maybe if America retreats - the world won't have us to kick around anymore.
janimal - I believe that 2006 and 2008 are going to be huge events. We're fed up over/up (not sure what neck of the woods you are in) here.
Finally - I noticed you didn't disagree about Rwanda. Hey! I give to a great organization called Rwanda Partners. You should look it up! It's a great way to privately give to people that unless you are from there . . . I'm sure you are just as ashamed as I am (based on the fact that you've experienced racism yourself) that your country did nothing while close to one million people were murdered because they were 'lighter' skinned blacks.
Y'all take care now! (That's in light of your racist view against white American's living in the South. I've been there on many occasions and the majority of people that live South of the Mason Dixon line and in the 'Bible Belt' are nice, good, kind people that ask for nothing but the chance to raise their families in a nice home, enjoy a glass of sweet tea and enjoy the sunset . . . I bet you janimal - I just bet 'those people' are just like you!)