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#166361 - 04/05/07 08:47 AM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: mbas400]
Believer Offline
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Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 1257
Loc: FL
Originally Posted By: mbas400
As strange as it sounds, and even I'm uncomfortable with the ethics of it, doctors are indeed creating life every day in the lab.

Even humans.

In-vitro fertilization, frozen embryos, even mixing sperm and egg in a petri dish are all commonplace.


First we should get facts straight, scientists do not create life when they meddle with DNA, they start with something already existing and build on it. Consider this mbas, you and I don't actually create programs to run on windows. We build on, and take advantage of software already in existence by calling various windows API's. Now if we were to create from nothing a brand new microprocessor, without using sand from the sea, just the atoms which randomly float around. If we then created a computer, not from the steel mills, but from the atoms randomly found in the universe. And finally if we were to write an OS and base API's for this newly created computer then we would be creators. But everything we do is based on the work or progress of someone else.

Science cannot duplicate that. Even in cloning they take life, which existed before they touched it, and merge it into life which existed before they touched it. Like I said Law of Biogenesis, ALL life comes from LIFE.

Now who says that Fundamentalists are content with stopping at reason? Modern Science is the result of some very real Christians trying to understand the world God created. Several of what we now consider science was based on the followin principle,

1. There is a God who gave order to this world.
2. Something with structure should and can be studied.
3. Structure allows for testing and validation.
4. Validation allows for a gaining of information.

You see it's the structure that baffles everyone here because science says it's all random, but true science can and should be quantified. We can study nature, and since nature has order we can logically theorize and test our theories.

Where science starts to get dicey is when we try to theorize and paint the bullseye around the arrow.


Edited by Believer (04/05/07 08:54 AM)
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#166366 - 04/05/07 09:02 AM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: Believer]
janimal Offline
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Registered: 12/16/05
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not nearly as dicey as preaching the truth is to be found in a dubious mouldy old book. you know, i think there is a lot missing from science, but at least it tries to be progressive, which is more than i can say for the people clinging onto archaic ideals and myths as if they are all that matters.

all this 'is there a creator' stuff is best kept on a threoretical level. as soon as people try to apply it practically, many a religion is exposed for what it is - opressive, arrogant, hateful and full of contempt for humanity (apart from the bits that agree with you).

maybe if religion had a legal age limit to it like other harmful intoxicants like alcohol, there would be some more reason and logic involved?
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#166368 - 04/05/07 10:09 AM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: victor]
Believer Offline
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Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 1257
Loc: FL
Originally Posted By: victor

So why kill one of God's creations? Didn't God create the mosquito? I find alot of Christians to be the biggest animal killers I know - Don't you see any hypocrisy in that? If you ask me, its another example of molding Christianity to your convenience.


So this is your great arguement against Christianity? Do you belong to PETA by any chance? Seriously animals kill other animals for food. It's part of nature, part of the food chain. Why do Christians kill mosquitos? Why does anyone kill a mosquito? Simple they're blood sucking pests, that may or may not bring disease. People kill animals and animals kill other animals because it's part of the natural order of things since the fall of man.
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#166404 - 04/05/07 12:41 PM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: Believer]
victor Offline
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Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 1347
Originally Posted By: Believer
Originally Posted By: victor

So why kill one of God's creations? Didn't God create the mosquito? I find alot of Christians to be the biggest animal killers I know - Don't you see any hypocrisy in that? If you ask me, its another example of molding Christianity to your convenience.


So this is your great arguement against Christianity? Do you belong to PETA by any chance? Seriously animals kill other animals for food. It's part of nature, part of the food chain. Why do Christians kill mosquitos? Why does anyone kill a mosquito? Simple they're blood sucking pests, that may or may not bring disease. People kill animals and animals kill other animals because it's part of the natural order of things since the fall of man.


No its not my "great argument" against Christianity - which would be more like a novel than a quick blerb about mosquitos. I'm just pointing out the great hypocrisy of Christianity - when it comes to "life". So God thinks its OK to kill his creatures because they annoy you? That mosquito might be a mom, or somebody's baby. Who are you to say that you can kill the mosquito? Is that God's way?... oh because its the "natural order of things since the fall of man"?... how convenient - the mosquito pays the price for Eve biting the apple.
Oh please. And mosquitos are not in "our food chain" unless you happen to be eating them after you swat them. And no I don't belong to PETA. I eat meat. But I don't walk around waving my Christian flag, life is sacred banner. And I try to be respectful of animals when I'm not eating them - its called practicing kindness.

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#166433 - 04/05/07 02:00 PM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: victor]
Believer Offline
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Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 1257
Loc: FL
Originally Posted By: victor

No its not my "great argument" against Christianity - which would be more like a novel than a quick blerb about mosquitos. I'm just pointing out the great hypocrisy of Christianity - when it comes to "life". So God thinks its OK to kill his creatures because they annoy you? That mosquito might be a mom, or somebody's baby. Who are you to say that you can kill the mosquito? Is that God's way?... oh because its the "natural order of things since the fall of man"?... how convenient - the mosquito pays the price for Eve biting the apple.
Oh please. And mosquitos are not in "our food chain" unless you happen to be eating them after you swat them. And no I don't belong to PETA. I eat meat. But I don't walk around waving my Christian flag, life is sacred banner. And I try to be respectful of animals when I'm not eating them - its called practicing kindness.


Wow talk about hypocracy. The mosquito might be someone's mother? Victor listen to yourself you're picking an arguement where one shouldn't even be picked. You're simply arguing to argue, not because the position is something near and dear to your heart, but because you just want to say something negative about Christians.

Furthermore I never said mosquitos were in our food chain. Mosquitos get killed because they carry disease, and because they live off the blood of whatever animal they happen to bite. I swat mosquitos, just like I'm sure you do, because they inject me with a chemical which makes my skin flare up and itch.

As for the life is sacred banner, well yes life is sacred, but in this world where man is a fallen creation, as are the animals around us, it is perfectly acceptable to hunt for food. I personally don't hunt. I actually have never hunted mainly because I live in a town where Walmart is about 15 minutes from my house. I personally would never go out and kill another animal for food, but then again I'm squemish that way.

Now as for does God find it ok to kill His creation? Well let's look at Genesis to find out. In Genesis God gives Adam dominion over all of the creatures, essentially making man their overseer. After the fall God does a surprising thing, He kills the first animal to cloth Adam and Eve. That is the first time in the Bible that blood is shed of any animal type. The next recorded time comes at the hand of Abel who killed an animal as a sacrifice to God. We then have the multiple Jewish sacrifices, offered up by the Jewish people in attonement for sin.

What does this tell us? While it's not the way God intended things to be, killing an animal for food, sacrifice, or clothing is acceptable.

Look Victor this is silly, it's one of the silliest things brought up on this board to show "Christian" cruelty to mankind.
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#166435 - 04/05/07 02:10 PM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: Believer]
victor Offline
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Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 1347
I'm still confused about my hypocrisy -
And I still call it rationalizing whatever is convenient.
That is why the bible can be interpreted so many ways - to whatever is convenient - and in this case - killing mosquitos is convenient - so we chalk it up to the fall of man. I have to agree with you there - it's a silly argument.

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#166439 - 04/05/07 02:27 PM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: victor]
SoCal4me Offline
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Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 12
Loc: SoCal but love the UK
:o)

Stop it, oh please! The hilarity of it all is killing me!! (Pun intended!) While I haven't read enough posts to descern the "hypocricy" of things, however, I read a very determined intransigence to the idea of a creator.
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#166443 - 04/05/07 02:40 PM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: SoCal4me]
Believer Offline
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Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 1257
Loc: FL
Your hypocracy is rooted in the fact that you've probably swatted multiple mosquitos in your life, as well as killing flies, ants, spiders, and multiple other creapy crawlers. Based on that you calling me a bad Christian for swatting a mosquito is just silly.
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#166446 - 04/05/07 02:52 PM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: Believer]
victor Offline
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Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 1347
First I don't call you a bad Christian (redundant?)
... joking.. sort of..
I have probably killed numerous mosquitos - but I'm not "pro-life".
Where's the hypocrisy? and what does intransigence mean anyways?

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#166523 - 04/05/07 05:04 PM Re: Why Do Some Of Us Need A God-Creator? [Re: victor]
SoCal4me Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 12
Loc: SoCal but love the UK
I think I see the problem. It appears to me that Victor believes that because bad things (many extremely bad) have been done in the name of "Christianity", that makes the Bible "bad" or unreliable.
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