Interesting quote.

Jonas Salk, a Russian Jew, worked to abolish polio, rather than cure a case here and a case there.

If I were God, I would do such and such.

Problem is, we have no idea about the actual job description of being God, let alone the challenges and joys.

mbas....I agree that it would be wonderful to eliminate disease once and for all.

I just wanted to point out that because of the fall of man in the original sin (Adam, Eve, the apple) sin entered the world and brought upon humanity all of these things. I know you don't believe in Jesus and don't want to convince you. I wonder where you stand on original sin, God and the devil?

As believers, we believe that because of sin, the ruler of this world is Satan. Although God is our creator and could abolish all this evil with just one breathe, because of what happened in the Garden of Eden, God gave control of this world to Satan. So all of the evil things that happen in this world are related to Satan, not God. That God could stop it is without questions in my opinion. But this is where the free will issue comes in. Man throughout history has been responsible for the ills of this world.

So to a believer when something goes wrong in our lives we blame either ourselves for lack of obedience, we blame Satan or we blame just general circumstances in life. Jeremiah 29:11 states that the Lord has good plans for us. We are the ones who let Him down by not yielding our wills to Him, engaging in immoral behavior, etc. God never does things to hurt us. I know you may not necessarily believe this, because you feel that if God is all powerful who does He not stop the ills of this world. I believe the scriptures which tell us we have free will. We cause our own heartaches....again, this is my opinion.

Blessings,

LL

I don't believe original sin. I cannot be convinced that a new born baby is doomed to hell.

A baby is raised by a parent who might introduce things to that child, and other children will have an influence, but born that way? No way.

You keep talking about the child-like innocence of faith in Jesus. But according to original sin there is no innocence.

"God" probably exists. But no where near the form presented in the scriptures. The scriptures are a feeble attempt to rationalize what has happened, and give God attributes that humans might be able to understand.

"Satan" probably doesn't exist. There has always been a balance of light and dark, good and evil, yin and yang. nature must balance.

As many of the believers do, they attribute the good things to "God" and bad things to "Satan" just as LL did in her post.

If God is all powerful, etc. he/it/she can be responsible for good and evil.

Otherwise, we humans are just pawns in a cosmic chess match between two supreme beings.

The idea of God allowing Satan to roam free is just patently absurd to me.

I can't believe that the story of Adam and Eve is literally true. Maybe, however, it contains symbolic truth.

Fair enough.

A new born child is born with original sin. However, because the child is unable to understand until an older age what is sin, that child would not be condemned to hell in my opinion. There is a point in our lives where we become aware of the difference between right and wrong. From that point on, then we are accountable for our own mistakes.

We have tossed around the concept that perhaps the bible is not true entirely or perhaps it is allegorical in some cases. I believe it is the inerrant word of God. As such, I believe in Adam/Eve, Noah's ark, Moses, etc. Just want to point out one thing....Satan in no way as powerful as God. He just wishes he were, but that is not the case. When original sin came into being, God allowed Satan to run amok if you will over planet earth. Again it goes to giving us free will rather than making us robots. Even Adam and Eve had free will. God asked them not to eat of that fruit and they choose to eat anyway. This was in direct disobedience to what God instructed. Satan is described as the prince of the air. Again, my opinion. With all of the suffering that Job did, Job preferred to maintain his faith in God.

I prefer to believe that although there is alot of evil in this world, good will triumph in the end.

Blessings,

LL

I agree.


But do you believe it literally or figuratively? There is a difference. I can believe in the meaning, but not neccessarily in the actual events as presented.



Again, this, in my opinion, not to mock you, is pure superstitious belief. But that's fine. If that is how a person needs to see the world, so be it.

It seems rather odd to me for the all powerful "God" to say to "Satan", "Here, have the planet. You've already ruined it for me, have fun with it."

Which is what you essentially said. To first say "a person is responsible for his own actions" and then to blame it on Satan is quite a leap.

Either a person is responsible for his own actions or he isn't. Why do you need a "Satan" to blame it upon? "The devil made me do it" is a poor excuse.



I do too.

Yes...it seems a bit odd to me that God would say, 'hey Satan, these guys have disobeyed me by eating a fruit when I told them not to, so I'm allowing you free reign over the world for the next x number of thousand years'.

I don't want to get into the reasons why I consider the Adam and Eve story highly improbable as a historical account. But let's just assume that it's literally true, for a moment.

Why would future generations be responsible for Adam and Eve's crime? If my great-grandfather murdered someone fifty years before I was born, am I responsible for that?

If you want to believe what the Christians believe, then yes, you are responsible for that, and all your progeny will be responsible as well.

Doesn't sound very merciful to me.

Hell must be freezing over, mbas actually agrees with two things I said (just kidding folks, don't go getting your boxers in a bunch).

I don't know why God has allowed Satan to run amok. I wish I had the answer for that. I don't have nor pretend to have the answers to all the questions and I believe we can agree that neither do any of you.

I can only address what I believe, which I have stated time and again. If I had the answers, I would be God and last I checked, I am not. Perhaps God is some mad scientist playing with all of us. Since I believe the bible, I believe God is love as He has shown this love to me on so many occasions. My life has been full of love as well as trials. I don't blame God for the bad in my life because that would be me being a coward. I blame myself, the choices and decisions I have made and I blame Satan for the role he has played. If I believe the bible, then I have to believe in Satan. I don't give him any power. I don't worship him. But I believe he exists. I believe he plays a role in our actions...not all of them mind you. Some of them are definitely our own doing.

I can only state that whatever good, whatever decent is in me is there because of God's love. It does not come from me because I am a sinner just like everyone else.

When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they introduced original sin into every person born. We are therefore born with it. Only by accepting culpability on our part, acknowledging that we have sinned, accepting the sacrifice on the cross can we be rid of this sin. It does not by any means make us perfect. It only makes us forgiven. If we deter from that path of forgiveness is this our fault or God's?

We on planet earth need to take responsibility for our actions. Is it God's fault that we litter? That this planet is filled with all types of pestilence?

No Joe, if you great-granddad murdered someone he alone would be responsible for that death. Your granddad would be the one spending his life in prison. However, I believe you would agree that his actions would have consequences on several generations down the line...don't you?

Let's keep this going. It is really interesting.

Blessings,

LL