[i][b]"I claim to believe the bible. If I believe the bible, then I believe that Jesus is God the son. I also believe that you cannot come to the father except through Jesus because the bible says so."[/b][/i] [LordsLady] http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=172730#Post172730 ".. because the Bible says so .." The Bible says a lot of things that ~ ~ contradict each other ~ contradict logic and / or science ~ contradict our usual ideas of right & wrong I would, therefore, find it very hard to believe all of the Bible or to base my life on what the Bible says. One example has been discussed on another thread: [i]Genesis 1:16 16 God made two great lights — the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.[/i] That's just not how it could have happened. Why should we believe the unbelievable? How do others manage to do it? If God has truly sent us a vital message in the Bible, how are we supposed to sift out God's important truth from all the other myths, dreams, legends, folklore, history & pseudo-history? Some people believe it all to be the infallible word of God, but even some of them acknowledge that some of it cannot possibly be right. Yet believers tell doubters to read it and they should find out the truth ~ or something similar.

Well obviously this is the crux of the issue (no pun intended)- because the fallback for position for Christians is , "Because the Bible tells us so." So if you believe the Bible as truth - then you believe your claims to be fact.
For those of us who doubt the accuracy of the bible or view the bible as simply as a piece of literature - then it makes for a pretty flimsy argument.
But I don't see anybody changing anybody else's mind on this forum.

Thank you Victor. I also don't see anybody changing anybody else's mind. Each person has to make their own decisions and search on their own. No one can lead you to the truth but your own research and your own heart.

Blessings,

LL

I think we finally opened up LL's mind to the fact that some people don't need Jesus and that other people can get to heaven without Jesus.

That's a big step for her.

But how do people believe things which cannot be true?

Or how are we supposed to sort out the wheat from the chaff?

There you go again. I never said that. I said you don't need Jesus because you say you don't. Read my post in another thread. I believe Jesus is VERY MUCH NEEDED for salvation. He is the way, the truth and the life, not my words....Gods.

You haven't made any progress. Back to the drawing board.

Blessings,

LL

YOU Very Much Need Jesus for Peace, Love and Salvation.

That's what you said.

Why don't we leave it at that - YOU need this imaginary friend. The rest of us don't.

Okay. We will leave it at that, but I never said I was missing love or anything else from my life. Those were your words. However, since I have met Jesus I have more of those attributes in my life than I did before. My life is richer for knowing Him.

Blessings,

LL

This thread is for discussing the validity of the Bible and why or how we can believe that which either makes no sense or contradicts itself.

How can one use the answer 'because the Bible says so', when the Bible can be seen to be unreliable in many places?

Even Believers can't seem to agree on which Bible is the right one, and whether the bible is all fact, all allegory or a combination of both.

Just ask LordsLady about this. She left the Catholic Church because they pray differently than she wanted to, and the Catholic Bible is not the same as the one she likes now.