Hopefully we leave beautiful memories. At least I want my children to know that I loved them. And that I encouraged them to think and make decisions and act and take responsibility for their actions. And that none of us are perfect or completely right.

Oh yes. All of that and more - a sense of right and wrong, the ability to make their own choices, a decent guide to raising their own children, etc.

That is eternal life, that's the cycle. That can make a "heaven" on earth one day.

Again mbas, your interpretation of death is different from mine. Again, this is MY opinion, MY belief.

What I question is if we are just maggot's food then why do we spend so much time debating these topics?

Let's pack it in and call it a day if at the end of that day nothing we do matters.

Blessings,

LL

We debate this because it is fun to think about.. so unprovable.. but we all have our theories.

I think most of us care what happens to us .. whether our souls fly free or we simply rot away to nothing. Of course we care what the answer is ...
but just because we can romanticize a glorious ending where we live forever smiling down from the heavens does not make it so.
Just because we'd all like to think we can live for eternity, free of our decrepit old bodies ... which sounds awfully nice.. does not make it so.

Wishful thinking and romanticized stories may make us feel better ... but that is not the same as knowing.

It matters. Even if we are just maggot's food after we die (and there is no spiritual life that continues), life is precious. Each moment can never be replaced. Even those with awful tragedies cling to life. Only mental sickness can cause one to want to end it (or perhaps risking death in order to rescue another or defend another or others).

And here's a speculation: maybe when mankind begins to actually treat life with the awe and respect it deserves, we might begin to see the common ground of spirituality. How can we love others when we're not sure if we love ourselves? And how can we love a God whom we're not even sure exists when we don't love others?

Respecting one another is a good place to start. And who better than each of us knows that, while we may not be perfect, we are worthy of love?

Because people who share your belief feel compelled to indoctrinate and take over every facet of public life want to impose your beliefs on the rest of us.

If Christians would simply stop bothering the rest of us, we wouldn't feel the need to debate it and to expose it. You can continue to brainwash your own children, teach them about dinosaurs on Noah's Ark, and how there are two lights in the sky while the rest of us learn real things.

But Christians can't seem to do that. They are compelled by their cult leader to "witness" to everyone.

mbas you know by now how I feel about being placed into a mold or box. I don't bother anybody with the gospel. I share when I am given an opportunity. I ask God to open doors for the conversation to turn to Him. If it does, then I share. I don't force my relationship with God on anybody. Perhaps you have me confused with the JW's who knock on peoples doors. This is a forum for opinions and I have stated mine.

Blessings,

Emilie

I have come to believe, based on the posts that I have just been reading on various threads, but which it is too late to respond to, that most Christians simply do not comprehend the mindset of the agnostic.

That doesn't mean that I dislike them, or am offended by them (well, maybe sometimes), but simply that they do not or cannot understand where I am coming from.

Some seem to think that I don't know where they are coming from, either ~ but I do.

I haven't called anyone a fool; I am stating a fact ~ there is no evidence, other than the Bible, which is self-evidently biased, that Jesus was / is God or Son of God.



I have never said that I was an atheist.
I am agnostic ~ that is quite different.
I don't know whether God exists or not.
Atheists can be as strong in their beliefs as Believers.

There is much that we cannot comprehend about 'life, the universe and everything'. There is evidence for the supernatural & if it is true, then there must be the possibility of God. So I am not discounting the existence of God & never have done.
I have often said that there may well be a God but that I do not know what God is or what God wants or anything else about God.

Have a look here:
What if I have a Message from God?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137495&page=12#Post137495



I don't think that humanity is evil at its core.
I might break up a Lego model that didn't work, but these are human beings we are talking about ~ supposedly created in God's image. How can something created in God's image be 'evil at its core'? ~ Unless God was 'evil at its core'?

If I had a child, would I torture & kill it?
Only if I had severe problems or was a very evil person.
I would be put into a secure unit either way.
I would not be praised, except by people with some kind of disorder.

That is why I cannot understand decent rational Christians believing that the torment of Job and the slaughter of the Amalekite children were the work of God.



Not sure ~ nothing this important.



Generally, I don't think that I am better than anyone, but I'm sorry, I don't include murderers, rapists, paedophiles, etc, in that.

I think that you are better than a murderer and a rapist. Doesn't God? Don't you? Really!?



So, how does that work, if Jesus washes away sin?



Yet Christians think that it's OK for people to suffer eternal damnation. Christians worship a God, who lets his 'children' rot or burn through all eternity.

See:
Heaven Spoilt By Hell
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137229&page=1#Post137229

What kind of vengeful parent would punish a child for so long and with such hatred?
What kind of God would behave like this?
Why would anyone think that this was good?

I don't understand. Some parents might, indeed, disown a child who turned out to be a rapist or murderer, while some would stand by him, and I can empathise with both views, but the rapists and murderers are no worse than you or I, apparently, so there is no argumenmt there.

It's just punishment for not being able to believe in something that there is no evidence for, but which we are supposed to worship.
I just cannot follow that.

I think we might be getting slightly off-topic in some of these areas, but basically, if we are 'sinners' then we probably are made in God's image, because he breaks his own commandments ~ though the sins he supposedly commits, according to the Bible, are far worse than anything that I could even contemplate, never mind carry out.

See:
Can God Be Wrong? Can God Do Wrong?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=181758&page=0&fpart=1