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#187448 - 06/01/07 12:26 PM Re: What would diminish the pot of hatred? [Re: nicolo]
Carl Offline
Silver Star Soulmate

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 5173
Loc: Gator Country, Florida - USA
Succinctly put, Nicolo. Indeed. At the heart of the matter, we have the same drives and needs and desires. The very nature that helped mankind survive - acquisitiveness, ingenuity, resourcefulness, protectiveness... - can also put self above others. So instead of survival, you have greed. A person wants not only what is needed, but what the other has, too.

Specialization of talents and skills came as groups formed, but in order for one group to merge with another, one set of leaders would have to defer to another. And the followers have a power of their own.

Communication is a problem as well. Deception is possible because we use language to mislead as well as to inform.

Would we become less greedy and more open to peace if there were no poverty or other disadvantage? As we are now, I'd say, 'no.' If we could unite under some common goals, perhaps we would change, over time. But to do that, we'd need an over-arching goal - more than just a nebulous desire for 'peace.'
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#187460 - 06/01/07 02:25 PM Re: What would diminish the pot of hatred? [Re: Carl]
nicolo Offline
Long Time Friend

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 792
Loc: Boise,ID
Hi Carl--" At the heart of the matter, we have the same drives and needs and desires. The very nature that helped mankind survive - acquisitiveness, ingenuity, resourcefulness, protectiveness... - can also put self above others. So instead of survival, you have greed. A person wants not only what is needed, but what the other has, too."

Yes, the whole thing comes down to the indivdual's choice of need or greed. A common goal might be self control rather than carrot/stick, it may be an evolutionary advantage.--nicolo

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#187635 - 06/02/07 02:59 AM Re: What would diminish the pot of hatred? [Re: nicolo]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22735
Loc: UK
Yes, I was going to say that we are all inter-related, but not that closely ~ and even those who are, apparently, more closely related can't get along.

Well, just consider the family feuds that exist ...
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#187657 - 06/02/07 04:46 AM Re: What would diminish the pot of hatred? [Re: PDM]
nicolo Offline
Long Time Friend

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 792
Loc: Boise,ID
Hi--So it seems were saying it is a sort of normal natural aggressive behavior which under some circumstances of miscommunication is threatening and causes an escalated response. In spite of the www miscommunication seems to be increasing rather than decreasing. i must admit that most of my conflicts have been due to my own misunderstanding, LOL! Seems we never have even enough time to understand those closest to us whom we think we know best.--nicolo

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#187746 - 06/02/07 09:21 PM Re: What would diminish the pot of hatred? [Re: nicolo]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22735
Loc: UK
I think that this all boils down to a time when we had to protect ourselves and our homes from anyone who was different ~ just in case they might be out to harm our tribe.
And, within the tribe, there would be battles for leadership etc.
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#187846 - 06/03/07 02:49 AM Re: What would diminish the pot of hatred? [Re: PDM]
nicolo Offline
Long Time Friend

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 792
Loc: Boise,ID
Hi--i would agree some of our agression is left over traits from evolution which helped get us this far and i think the in the last few millenia despite wars and massacres humanity has improved in overall empathy and compassion. So we have shed some unnecessary agression though evolution and some have gone further, some less. Since pysche has an effect on the physical body, perhaps maintaining emotional control and other positive charactoristics can over generations become an inherited trait, in a sense guiding evolution while avoiding removing of possible valuable traits, instead blending in more good. Of course one must decide what is "good", in this case it would be the greater good of how you would like the future world to be, versus total self-interest.
Now it would be rediculous to think we could get everyone to agree at once, so it is up to those that derive some kind of satisfaction or pleasure from doing so. That is one factor we have yet to consider--the satifaction of increasing "quality of life". If your not getting that, you should examine your religion or belief. Otherwise you are in what is called "bad faith", a hypocrisy according to kierkegaard. he's plucked more christian feathers than any atheist, im' suprised i don't see him come up very often.--nicolo

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#187911 - 06/03/07 02:00 PM Re: What would diminish the pot of hatred? [Re: nicolo]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22735
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: nicolo
... Otherwise you are in what is called "bad faith", a hypocrisy according to kierkegaard. he's plucked more christian feathers than any atheist, im' suprised i don't see him come up very often.--nicolo


I don't know much about Kierkegaard but remember reading about him on this forum.

Here are the references:

Originally Posted By: Carl
... I think I should declare that I am well aware of the lack of logic in my beliefs. I struggle with aspects of it, and yet, I choose (as did Kierkegaard, or in the manner of the existentialist mood which calls for an affirmation) to believe in something. The make-up of that belief structure has been under change/growth all my life, and no doubt will continue.

..

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=127600&page=0&fpart=5


Originally Posted By: Carl
Can not say you're wong about what Kierkegaard called the "leap of faith." But there's a part that you overlook, also. If a car did fly, and a robot did talk to you, you would wonder if you had become delusional, or if there was something at work that you didn't understand, right?

I guess there are many who call themselves Christians because they were baptized into the faith as children. And others because they have done what the Bible says to do, and have willfully suspended disbelief, as you have said. And who's to say that will not be honored by God?

But there's another element as well. As I've said before, many Christians have had spiritual experiences which convince them of Jesus' divinity and/or of the existence of God. And just because another doesn't experience the same thing doesn't mean that it is wrong.

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=131754&page=0&fpart=2


Originally Posted By: Carl
Well, now - you join a group of courageous thinkers. Some of them, like Sartre, can be rather dark and convoluted.

But when so much is subject to interpretation and our subjective qualification, it can be a relief to know that I invest meaning into life by what I choose. I am important to the life that I live.

My favorite existentialist (most people just refer to him as a theologian) is Kierkegaard. What people call his "leap of faith" wasn't really quite that. But it was a courageous leap.

Whenever we step out to widen our comfort circle/path, it can be disorienting and frightening (if we are truthful about it).

But it's quite exhiliarating.

....

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=135251&page=0&fpart=16




Originally Posted By: Carl
...
"You don't have to leave your faith to accept that other faiths might have something to offer as well." [MBAS400]

I like that.

I like Kierkegaard's "leap of faith." I have no condemnation for anyone who chooses NOT to leap into the unknown. In fact, I don't think it was completely the unknown that Kierkegaard faced. But, at the same time, one who tells you that he/she has leaped, and now "knows" (that is, has faith, with - for some - the feelings this faith brings), should not be condemned either.

The condemnation should be for those who try to force others to leap (or coerce), or those who try to prevent people from leaping. I also don't like those who seek to make either group (the ones who leap, and the ones who don't) feel bad in their choice.

....
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=174273&page=0&fpart=11


Originally Posted By: Argyll
BAM! Here it is:

"What Is Existentialism?
by Walter Kaufmann
Excerpted from "Existentialism from Dostoevsky to Sartre", The World Publishing Company,1956


'Existentialism is not a philosophy but a label for several widely different revolts against traditional philosophy. ... The Three writers who appear invariably on every list of "existentialists" - Jaspers, Heidegger, and Sartre - are not in agreement on essentials. Such alleged precursors as Pascal and Kierkegaard differed from all three men by being dedicated Christians; and Pascal was a Catholic of sorts while Kierkegaard was a Protestant's Protestant. If, as it is often done, Nietzsche and Dostoevsky are included in the fold, we must make room for an impassioned anti-Christian and a even more fanatical Greek-Orthodox Russian imperialist, By the time we consider adding Rilke, Kafka, and Camus, it becomes plain that one essential feature shared by all these men is their perfervid individualism.
The refusal to belong to any school of thought, the repudiation of the adequacy of any body of beliefs whatever, and especially of systems, and a marked dissatisfaction with traditional philosophy as superficial, academic; and remote from life - that is the heart of existentialism.'


Component of The Existentialist's Home Page

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=135931&page=0&fpart=2


Originally Posted By: somsuj
... many famous personalities had epilepsy. see here too : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy

Charles Dodgson (a.k.a. Lewis Carroll), Edgar Allen Poe, Dostoevsky (whose novel The Idiot features an epileptic protagonist, Prince Myshkin), Vincent Van Gogh, Gustave Flaubert, Soren Kierkegaard and Sylvia Plath. The contemporary author Thom Jones has temporal lobe epilepsy.

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=129363&page=0&fpart=2




Perhaps we should have a thread on him.
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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