(All quotes by PDM)



Yet, you say that believing the things we believe do not seem logical. Yet, we believe them. So, am I missing something? Ergo, we're being illogical if we believe in something that is illogical.



Fair enough.



I guess you think that Hitler was a good man turned bad then.



If you were Hitler's mother, would you stop him by any means possible to save the Jewish people?



So you don't include murderers, rapists, paedophiles, etc. as human beings then.



What if I told you that my ex sister in-law had done so many things to our family, had me so angry, that I wanted her dead, that the hate for her was that strong? No, didn't follow through on it, but according to Jesus, I was a murderer already b/c of the hate I had in my heart for her. Do you still think I'm better than the one that actually committed the act? Jesus didn't. He said we were both murderers.



It means that no matter what your life was like before Jesus came into your life, that God won't hold that against you in the future. It's kind of like a 2nd chance. Look at the examples of Matthew the tax collector, cheating people out of money all the time, treating his fellow Jews w/contempt & disdain. He met Jesus & his life changed. He wanted to live for God after that.



There's 2 options to afterlife -- Paradise is the place God exists. The lake of fire is the place w/o the presence of God in it. There are humans that want to live w/God in his kingdom, in his house & then there are humans that don't want to have anything to do w/Him. Why would He force you to live w/Him if you don't want to? What He is doing when you make the decision to not follow Him, not abide by His rules, not acknowledge that He even exists, is giving you exactly what you want. A life w/o Him in it. (Please note when I say you, I do not mean YOU personally, it is a general term for humanity)

Ever hear of a parent throwing a child out of the house b/c they refuse to obey the rules? Maybe sending them to a boot camp, living w/relatives, some putting them on the street w/nowhere to live? All of that is done in what people call "tough love". To get the child to open their eyes & realize what they're doing is not only destructive to themselves but destructive to those around them. What happens if that child doesn't learn, keeps repeating the same behaviors & doesn't want to have anything to w/you? Do you force them to come back or do you let them go?

I have said before that I find much that is in the Bible and Christian belief illogical. That's part of debating these issues. Is that the same as calling someone a fool? I don't think so. To do so would be an insult. Again, I am just stating a simple fact ~ there is no evidence that Jesus is God or Son of God.



I don't know what caused Hitler to behave as he did. Plenty of people commit horrific crimes. Does that make humanity 'evil at its core'? I don't think so. Most countries have laws that promote good and punish evil. If humanity was 'evil at its core' that would not be the case.



As I said before, we don't know why Hitler behaved as he did ~ maybe it was problems with his mother.
We can't really know how our children are going to turn out.
I don't think that I could kill a child of mine, whatever he had done ~ and those being thrown into Hell are not supposedly evil anyway.



They are, of course, human beings, but they are not typical of all humanity.



But you didn't do it, did you? That's the difference.



You can only do what you can do. Sometimes youngsters go off the rails because of their parents.
Whatever, I would not send my child into an eternal pit of fire. That's just plain horrific.

PDM...God does not send His creation to a pit of fire. We do that on our own because of our separation from Him which is what we call sin. Sin is death which means to be separated from God. God told Adam that he can eat of any tree in the garden except for the tree of good and evil. The penalty of disobidience was death or separation from God. When Adam sinned, death came to him and all of his descendents. Not only did he die physically but also spiritually. Adam did not kill, it was a simple disobedience that took his purity away. God is pure. Because of sin, man is not. Man cannot in his sinful nature approach God. This is why Jesus came and died. He paid the price for the sin of man and made it possible for man to approach God through Him.

God gave us the choice either to accept Him or not. If we choose not to follow or believe in Him, then why would we want to spend eternity with Him? The choice is ours to make. We choose to be with Him or not. God is just granting those that do not accept Him their desire. If they do not want a relationship with Him, they don't have to have one.

As far as the tough love, I do believe in this and have had difference of opinion with my own husband. As his wife, I submit to his leadership as the head of this household. We differ on how to deal with our son's drug addiction. But not wanting to cause my husband further hurt, I differ to him.

I know you are probably tired of hearing me state this, but I believe you are sincere in your questions. Remember also, that with great power comes great responsibility (from the Spiderman movie). Biblically it would state, to whom much is given, much is required. We will each be held accountable for our own actions.

Blessings,

Emilie

I find this a fascinating subject ~ and it must be relevant to everyone, even if it is not of interest to everyone.

Why are you so sure that the Bible gives a true account of what God is and what God wants?

My only testimony is that I have a personal relationship with God. And yes you are right. It is a fascinating subject.

Thank you for keeping it real and keeping it interesting. We all contribute from our own experience which is what makes it even more fascinating. Even if we don't always agree, we can still communicate as civilized individuals.

Blessings,

Emilie

(PDM edit: Quote is from LordsLady)

Would you PLEASE make up your mind? We do not send ourselves to this mythical pit of fire. It's God's choice and God's alone. You already said that it's God's Choice. We have no choice in the matter. It's totally 100% up to God.

Enough with the fairy tales and scare tactics. It might work on a pre-school Sunday school, but not here.

So Adam disobeyed and now you claim that all mankind is responsible. Again, what kind of a bogus "loving" God would need to keep a grudge for all eternity? What about your other God's commandments to "turn the other cheek?" Your two Gods can't seem to agree with each other. Perhaps that's what Jesus was complaining about on the cross when he asked "Why have you forsaken me?"

Your Jesus was FORSAKEN by God. The real God. Get over it.

How lousy a creator your God must be to make imperfect creations. Not once, but twice! He wiped out all his creations once, but that didn't work.

(PDM edit: Quote is from LordsLady)

The voices in her email tell her it's true. That's the only proof she has.

What do you do when you have an entire group of people, not just individuals here & there who consistently do evil things & as much as you try to stop them, save them, whatever, they will not stop nor listen to reason?



I know I've asked this before & I don't remember what your answer was, but if you had a crystal ball that you could see into your child's future & you saw them commit horrific crimes after horrific crimes, what would you do?



So they get listed in the "other" category then? These are the people I'm equal in sin to vs these are the people that are "beneath me" b/c they've committed horrific crimes whereas I haven't. Do you see how that sounds? And I'm being accused of being self-righteous (not by you)??

If that's not what you meant, please explain it better to me b/c hearing the words "I don't think I'm better than anyone, BUT "those people" (murderers, rapists, paedophiles) aren't included in that" really bother me. In what?? In determining what??



We're seeing things from 2 different angles here. I'm talking about what lies in the heart & you're talking about what people do. Yes, there is a difference b/c if you go w/what people feel in their heart, you will see that we're really all the same. The difference is that some people follow through w/the thoughts & others don't.



So I guess you're saying let them go. Oh, but sending them on the streets to live w/drug addicts, prostitutes, etc. & eventually killing themselves b/c of their habits is a heck of a lot better b/c hey, you didn't send them to a fire to burn!! Why's the former the child's choice & the other not?

Either they kill themselves or they get help. If enough people stop enabling them, they hit the bottom and will either get help or die.

My father made that choice and he lives today.

But it wasn't up to me to decide to kill him.

There's a famous story about a mother who has tuberculosis, and the father has syphilis. Together they had four children.

Their first child was born blind...
The second child was stillborn...
The third child was deaf & dumb...
and their fourth was born with tuberculosis.

They're now pregnant with their fifth child.
Would you recommend that they abort this child?

Parents say all the time, Either you can get help & continue to live w/me, or you can leave until you decide to get help on your own, but you are not dragging us down w/you. We are not enabling you any longer. They either make the decision to get help or they die, as you say.

Parent - Here are your 2 choices - 1) Change & get help & live w/me or 2) Leave until you get help - if you decide not to get help, you will probably die, I'm just warning you
Which do you choose?
God - Here are your 2 choices - 1) Change your life, repent & live here w/me in paradise or 2) Continue on the path you're on & then don't live here w/me - if you decide to continue this path, you will die a spiritual death, I'm just warning you
Which do you choose?

I don't see the difference?



I don't believe in abortion, so no I wouldn't.