Last weekend 2 little children aged 4 and 6 were in the back of their Mother's car in the council estate of Moyross Co.Limerick where they lived when some young thugs no older than 12 set the vehichle alight. Those two little children are now fighting for their lives in hospital and face years of painful surgery if they survive.

Later in the week a young man has been shot dead in retaliation.

This area and many others in Ireland and indeed the world are in the middle of a gang war.

And nothing can be done to stop those responsible even though they are well known to the Gardai. Prison are too full to take the young thugs responsible and they laugh in the face of the law.There is no solid proof and no-one will talk for fear of reprisals.

Surely there must something we can do. But how do stop the unstoppable?

Sadly, we hear of this sort of thing all the time.

Why are so many children turning into criminals?

Is there a connection between this and the rise in mental illness in children, I wonder?

It probably doesn't help. But its no excuse for what happened to those children and others like them. If these youngesters have such illnesses they need to be somewhere they can get proper help.

But how to explain the ones who do it for the laugh. To be seen as tough by their peers? Those who make a mockery of the authorities?

I wasn't suggesting that mental illness was the explanation ~ though, I suppose, it might be. I was wondering why children are turning to crime and / or becoming victims of mental illness, at around the same time and wondering if this is coincidence, perhaps, or if, indeed, these matters are connected, in some way. What is causing the youth of today to behave as they do? How is their behaviour different from those who lived in the past ~ or are there similarities, after all? Is it possible that violent extremism amongst disaffected Moslem youths might be part of this mood? Here's a related thread: Topic: Hard to be young http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000014 And here are related articles from [i]The Telegraph[/i] online: [i]'Modern life leads to more depression among children' Filed: 12/09/2006 'As professionals and academics from a range of backgrounds, we are deeply concerned at the escalating incidence of childhood depression and children’s behavioural and developmental conditions. We believe this is largely due to a lack of understanding, on the part of both politicians and the general public, of the realities and subtleties of child development. Since children’s brains are still developing, they cannot adjust – as full-grown adults can – to the effects of ever more rapid technological and cultural change. They still need what developing human beings have always needed, ..' 'We therefore propose as a matter of urgency that public debate be initiated on child-rearing in the 21st century this issue should be central to public policy-making in coming decades.'[/i] It is signed by a number of experts and others involved with child development. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/12/njunk112.xml [i]"Junk culture 'is poisoning our children'." By Ben Fenton (Filed: 12/09/2006) 'Who is to blame for the death of childhood?' 'A sinister cocktail of junk food, marketing, over-competitive schooling and electronic entertainment is poisoning childhood, a powerful lobby of academics and children's experts says today. 'Experts are deeply concerned at the escalating incidence of childhood depression. 'In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, 110 teachers, psychologists, children's authors and other experts call on the Government to act to prevent the death of childhood.'[/i] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=1DLA1LSDUC25RQFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2006/09/12/njunk12.xml

Another recent incedent in Dublin this time: About 9 or so weeks ago a local bakery in my area was broken in to by three youths who attacked and badly beat up the elderly man working there. His name was Jimmy and he was a well loved member of the community. Although Jimmy was released from hospital after an brief stay he later went unconcious in the front seat of his delivery van and lapsed into a coma. He never woke up. The youths who attacked him got away with less than €100. [url=http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0912/louthj.html]www.rte.ie/news/2006/0912/louthj.html[/url]

Most Dangerous Gang in the US, Mara Salvatrucha (some facts):
-Began when immigrants from El Salvador banded for protection in the US against other groups.
-Also began working for other gangs carrying out assassinations. Later, they went out on their own warring against other gangs. They also later started recruiting some members from other nationalities.
-Older members had military experience gained from 80's civil war in El Salvador. Also skilled in the use of edged weapons (especially machetes), firearms, garrotes, and paramilitary tactics. For example, they can carry out home invasions as if they are a SWAT team.
-Most ruthless and have no reservations about killing anyone, including cops.
-Identified by their tattoo "MS-13".
-Besides chapters throughout the US and Central America (more numbers there), the largest chapters in the US are Northern Virginia, Texas, and New York.
-They fear being deported to El Salvador where they end up facing vigilante death squads, such as Somba Negra (meaning "Black Shadow" in English) so they will resort to any extreme measures to avoid detection and capture, such as fight to the death rather than surrendering.

maybe its something to do with the example set by the most dangerous gangs in the uk and us - the labour party and the republican party...

... I dont even know which avenue to discuss when contemplating this subject.... another day I'll come back to this thread, but not today.

That is terrifying!
What is going on with some of these people?

A feeling that they don't matter, so nobody else does, either, perhaps?

I've also heard of the rising Skinhead neo-Nazi movements taking place in most of Europe. It's getting larger, particularly in Russia. In the US? There is also Skinheads present, mainly in the Midwest, but not as powerful as the ones in Europe since law enforcement here in the US crack down on them real hard and they face formidable opposition from minority groups.