sorry - wouldn't have made the joke about the tequila if i'd realised you've got no sense of humour.

quote - As far as the statistics go, it's because we have a larger population.

i don't think i was insulting your intelligence. this is a classic answer you get to the stats from a pro gun american, and completely ignores the 'per head of population' stats. heard it loads of times. classsic denial.

no, guns are not the only cause of death, but thats irrelevant. this thread is about guns and the fact that high rates of gun ownership lead to high numbers of shootings, so please stick to the point.

yes, owning a gun is you own personal descision. it is my descision not to have a device designed specifically for blowing holes in human bodies under my roof - the same cannot be said about any of the other 'evils' you list, besides which the drug and prostitution scene only become real problems once the guns get involved.

hi--what should the "law" have to do with my choice to own a weapon or not? i've met lots of felons and drug addicts whose sense of "good" and responsablity is far advanced over politicians i've met. weapons are common here in ID and not just tourist/hunters, some folks need them to live and protect their world from predators. when we lived up north and raised goat in an area somewhat remote, we shot dogs, cats, bear and cougar(made great jerky!). When i started to think of annoying neighbors as predators i put the gun away,LOL! but it was my own decision.--nicolo

well, if the law has no business protecting the public, then why bother having laws at all. mind you, judging by geore w's latest exploits thats exactly where america is heading.

Laws can protect the public but they are no good unless they are enforced. Like for example, we have lots of gun control laws in the books but enforcement of them are a problem. Making more of them don't do any good at all. Also, not all laws make sense. Laws can only be effective to a certain degree because of limitations. And, not all laws make sense.

Here's an example -
my step brother was killed at age 28 by a disgruntled employee in "work rage".
the guy had no criminal record, no psychiatric record - but was suspended from work x 1 week for poor work performance at a chemical plant.
he returned to work, and during lunch he took out a gun and killed my step brother and another man who were the supervising engineers at the plant. then he killed himself.

under "the law" he had no problem getting a gun. no reason not to, under "the law". lucky for us he just killed himself so that we could be spared of a whole messy trial. but what if we had stricter gun laws - like no hand guns - or better yet, no guns - then he probably would have walked in and thrown a few punches.
gun laws don't work, which is why they are not enforced.

I'm really sorry about your step brother.
That's horrific and very sad.

Your comment about gun laws not working is, of course, an interesting one.

It matters not that guns are illegal, if people still carry them and use them to commit crimes.

There isn't a strong gun culture in the UK, and people don't usually tend to carry them, so we don't have as much gun crime. However, gun crime is on the rise.

Crime is, of course, self-evidently illegal, so the fact that criminal gun activity is against the law ~ and against our previous cultural tendencies ~ isn't stopping gun crime happening and these crime figures growing.

These items are from an area relatively local to me:

thanks for sharing your story victor. one thing most gun lobyists have in common is not having been on the receiving end.

several aquaintances of mine have been gunned down over the years - you can blame them for getting into the scene that got them killed in the end if you like, but the fact of tragic loss remains, and there are always people left behind to pick up the pieces. i've head a 12 bore with both hammers cocked rammed into my face in this country, i have been shot with high power air rifles, and i have had dodgy cops abroad wave their ak47's around in my face. the only difference that owning a gun would have made to these incidents is that i would be dead now.

its all about being humane enough to be able to say that you'd rather take a bullet than have a life on your conscience. thats simple human decency, and something which larger and larger sections of humanity seem to lack.

hi janimal,--"its all about being humane enough to be able to say that you'd rather take a bullet than have a life on your conscience. thats simple human decency, and something which larger and larger sections of humanity seem to lack."

thanks janimal, that seems to be the primary cause from which guns and their related laws and problems are only secondary. if we continue to disregard a sense of decency, laws aren't very effective--the law just uses guns to enforce gun laws. seems to cyclic thinking from which there isn't much chance of real thinking. human decency is the life force which has maintained humanity throughout evolution and will always preserve some folks to continue the race. Nowadays it seems we are taking pains to educate it out of us, as something not scientific.it shouldn't be included in the science/religion debate--it should guide both towards a higher evolved humanity.--nicolo

Take a bullet from an attacking felon and not fighting back? No way. If that is so, you've just put yourself at his/her mercy. That's ludicrous I'd rather fire the bullet/possibly take the bad guy's life and save mine or any loved one's life and then worry about post-shooting trauma (happens to cops too)and the legal stuff later. "It's better to be judged by 6 than carried by 12". I have no concern for the dirtbag's life or welfare!

this attitude is exactly why the human race will never stop self destructing.