i don't really get why so much venom is being directed at victor here. which is why i'm pulling back. this doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
I have always considered Lora & Victor to be even-tempered and polite, so I am really surprised at the way this thread has turned out ~ with them being in apparently opposing camps, insulted or upset by each other. I'm really sorry to see this. And I really don't think that any of this 'unpleasantness' has been deliberate ~ I think that it must be due to a misunderstanding.
I really don't think that Victor has ever intended to upset or insult Lora, but Lora is upset ~ over the way that she feels that her culture is & has been trivialised, how this is exemplified in the use of the word 'ghetto' and how this shows a lack of understanding of the suffering that many Black people have endured over centuries and which she still experiences today in the form of racist insults.
I think that the problem here is that anyone who has not been through it cannot understand it, and even those whose families have endured it, can throw it off if they are able to assimilate into the changing culture.
Black people cannot become white and probably don't want to do so ~ why on earth should they!? ~ but that means that the differences are still visible to all ~ and, for some bigots, that means that they feel that they can spit or insult or be nasty and negative in whatever way they wish ~ while some lucky white people, who are not subjected to racism, and are not living impoverished in the 'ghetto', go around in their baggy trousers, pretending to be rappers, and shouting 'that's so ghetto' in an assumed Black ghetto American accent
Is it a trivial matter?
Does it show a lack of understanding?
Is it empathy?
Is it just one of those things?
Is it ignorance?
Is it racism?
Is it the opposite of racism?
Many of us here have
dismissed this as just a change in the meaning of a word and even an actual positive appreciation of aspects of Black culture, but it is often the same story with matters of prejudice like racism: ~
Is what is intended the important thing, or how it is received / perceived?
Lora has mentioned the 'n' word. Most of us consider this to be a negative and racist term, but all it means is 'black' / Black person, so, if I decide that linguistically it just means a Black person, and so I were to innocently use it, to and of all the Black people I met, would that make it OK?
There is another word that is misused in the eyes od some ~ 'Icon'
A Serbian Orthodox priest I met is very upset about the way that this word is used ~ of famous people; of small images on a computer.
He is horrified because 'Icon' has a special religious meaning:'In Eastern Christianity and other icon-painting Christian traditions, the icon is generally a flat panel painting depicting a holy being or object such as Jesus, Mary, saints, angels, or the cross.'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon
'Icon' and now 'ghetto' have been taken over and used, or misused, by others ~ people from different cultures.
Is this a bad thing?
Is it just inevitable?
Should we fight for what we think is right?
Or should we just get over it?
This is more important to some than to others, obviously, and I think that we need to respect that and be careful not to step on toes ~ even if we disagree with each other.