One of the issues we've discussed is the apparent callousness of God towards his creation - wiping out civilizations, killing babies, etc.

Believer posted the above in another thread and I thought it deserved its own commentary.

Are we as humans only as valuable as lines of code?

We brought up Battlesar Galactica on another thread. Are we just God's Toasters?

Is that our "great purpose" to be discarded by God whenever the whim strikes Him? Is that what hurricanes and tornados and earthquakes are for? To exercise God's whimsome nature towards his toasters?

And of what children born with birth defects? Less valuable to God? And why doesn't God heal amputees?

I know if I were to tell my children that they are worth nothing more than a few lines of code to me, they would grow up and rebel and turn to drugs and hate me too. Isn't that what you claim that we "humans" are doing to our creator? Where is the sin - from the creator telling us we are a bunch of worthless beings, to be discarded at will?

Isn't that what you are claiming God thinks of us? Mere lines of code to be discarded, rewritten, tossed aside at will?

If so, that's the best argument for being an atheist I have ever heard.

This is no God I want any part of.

I agree with you.

However, I don't think that it is true.

I don't know that God even exists, but if he does, I simply cannot see 'him' taking sides ~ whether it be in a battle or on the football pitch. He is not going to help anyone to win ~ either by making it rain or by killing the opposition.

However, if I did believe that a God existed who slaughtered babies and considered humanity ~ his apparent creation ~ to be worthless, then no, I couldn't worship him.

Unless ..

Unless I were too terrified to do otherwise.

I also agree, and also about the comments concerning the children of God (vs children of Satan) on another thread - that is, I think we have value and are loved, whatever we have decided about God's existence.

I'm about done on trying to encourage people to seek their own answers, but I will occasionally weigh in.

Maybe, Carl, this forum is us finding our answers!
Who knows what effects it is having ~ both on those participating and those just reading.

And if God esteems one group higher than another, do you really want to be a part of that club? Are we not all members of the human race? Don't all babies suckle and find comfort from their mothers regardless of race or religion?

Christianity's first concern is spreading the Word. That is the underlying motive behind foreign works like providing clean water or food. Shouldn't the motive be humanity and compassion free of any ties? Would wells be built in hardcore Muslim areas where there is absolutely no chance of conversion regardless of the fact that "Christ's love" was being shared? That's strategy.

It is this kind of reasoning that can justify the horror of a mushroom cloud because it will hasten the coming of the day of the Lord.

Religion - and that's exactly what Christianity is just like Islam, Judaism, Buddhism...whatever - is what will keep us down and divided as the human race. That is what divides us now as always. Ideas that conflict keep us from solving our problems. It isn't man's sinful nature; it's ideas!!!

Carl:

You will continue to encourage. It's your nature.

Human value is over rated and conceited on our part. The value of life is the thing that is important on this earth. Human value happens to be a little higher than rabbit value because of the difference in the length of time to produce the product. I find it sad when there is such concern to serve a God that at best is ambiguous that we lose sight of our place on the planet. That place on the planet comes with a moral responsibility that we have fallen very short on living up to. We are all children of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars: and no more than the trees and the stars. I don’t need a God to know that I owe thanks to the vegetables and meat that sustains me. It is not my right to kill and eat without being thankful. Not thankful to a God but thankful to the planet. I would like to also add that I have found the forum very thought provoking. I try to listen to all people – everyone has value – and everything anyone has to say has value. Quite often the value is simply a better understanding of what is in their head.

Vey well said, blr.

I'll just add, though, that while we may inflate our own value as human beings, I think that it is only right that we should value life ~ and particularly value the lives of our offspring.

If children are not valued, they do often fall into crime or depression.

We are not the only species that values the lives of our offsprings. And, yes it is very important to value the lives of our offsprings. I think all humans value the lives of their offsprings just not necessarily the lives of others offsprings. Or, lack the skills to do the job that you or I would consider adequate in raising their offsprings.

hi PDM,--"If children are not valued, they do often fall into crime or depression."

It gets worse--than neither do they value their children. The effect works against us exponentially, each parent bearing more unvalued children. Gets to the point where human life has no value at all, and consequently the whole environment.
Here we stand on the accomplishments of humanity past.Do we just separate ourselves from past and future to satisfy ourselves, or do we feel we owe a debt to those that nurtured us--a debt we can only pay thru our children? As a "social" entity (the great beast, haha) we are undecided. Those in the herd wait for the sign from the leaders, where as those who think teach their children what they don't learn in school.We cannot do it all, but we can do our part with those in our every day lives. In a sense, christianity has become another "great beast". Some place their book says "where two or three are gathered in my name"--two or three, not thousands on tv, just a small family group. That's where children come from.--nicolo