As I mentioned in another post, Pinto, my 11 year old parakeet, has an inoperable tumor. The vet said even trying to xray her to figure out what kind of tumor it was would probably kill her. She's so elderly and frail that she couldn't take the trauma.

I just spent a half hour standing at the cage, hand feeding her millet and lettuce - some of the lettuce was medicated with pain medication. The problem right now is that the other two parakeets - in fully natural parakeet behavior - are trying to drive her out of the flock at times. In the wild, an ill parakeet would endanger the whole flock. They are trained by nature to try to keep ill keets away.

I think I have gotten Pinto to eat her fill. I realize millet and lettuce are not high nutrition foods but my aim here is to make her last days happy ones.

It bothered me a bit, at the vet's office, how they handled it. The vet told me to euthanize Pinto, and I disagreed. Pinto still flies (which she didn't believe), still sings with music, is still happy. She is not ready to give up. So after that the vet prescribed me some pain medication and then sent in an intern to do the "wrap-up talk". The intern started trying to convince me to switch Pinto to pellets for her health!! In her last three weeks of her life!! I was polite and said I would consider it, but I found that to be an unreasonable path to take.

We did just switch the light right next to their cage to a full spectrum light. We had other full spectrum lights in the room but we figure if the light will help her feel better in her final days, it is worth it.

omg lisa i hope you feel better =) im sure in the 11 yrs u had her she lived to the fullest and had an amazing life being cared by you.

i feel terrible

We got Pinto in December 1998 as a hand raised chick, so she's just about to turn 11. So I should say more properly that she is aged 10 years and 11 months right now.

Here is a picture of Pinto from a few years ago -



She has gorgeous feathers, a blue-purple. She was very sad when Nazo died last year and I have a feeling that really had her going down hill.

I am working in my office right now - where the cage is - so I can keep an eye on the other two birds. They don't mean to be cruel, they are just acting instinctively. I am contemplating putting Pinto into a separate cage, but she gets really upset when we do that. She wants to be with the other keets even if they're being mean to her. I'm sure we all know that feeling - we are not getting along with siblings or friends, but we don't want to be ostracized either. We want to be accepted by our group.

So far, so good. The keets are all sleeping together, which is always sweet to see. I just worry about the morning. When Bob woke up this past morning, Pinto and Santo were eating each others' toes. They hang on opposite sides of the cage and harass each other. Even if I put Pinto into a separate cage, I'd have to keep her in a separate room because they'd just do that "sibling squabbling" stuff on the little cage. Pinto would be absolutely miserable if we separated her from her flock like that. Maybe I can stay awake until Bob wakes up, and always have an adult around to mediate.

She is really spectacular. Poor little girl. You are so nice for doing everything in your power to make her last days peaceful and joyous. Does she have special music she likes to sing to?

They like all sorts of music, but especially "happy" music like the Beatles

Birds have good taste.

It's always sad to see one's pets suffering; we get so attached to them.

Well that's the thing. If Pinto was curled up in a ball not eating, just moaning, then I would let her go. I don't want her to suffer. But she seems happy, she sings, she eats, she enjoys her lettuce, she flies around. She still seems like she's enjoying life.

In fact here it is 7am and I am still awake because I want to keep an eye on her, I don't want to leave her alone with the other two. They've been behaving but I want to be sure. So I'm trying to stay awake until Bob wakes up so he can take over Pinto Watching Duty. I want to keep her safe. She deserves her last days to be content ones.

So I'm damaging my own health, to keep her happy

But that's what a mommy does. It's well worth it IMO. When does bob get up normally?

We don't have any "normally" in this house. We can work all night long, or we can work all day long. Sometimes we work all day and then all night. Really we work 24 hours a day and just collapse asleep occasionally. So we'll see when he wakes up ... or I suppose we'll see when I collapse!

i love it. lol. So how is your sunrise?

Lisa, I am so sorry to hear about Pinto. I truly believe you are doing the right thing for Pinto making her last days the happiest possible. You will know in your heart if/when the time has come to let her go. For right now, it sounds like she is just not ready to go. She's a fighter, and can obviously feel the love you have for her and it gives her strength. I'm glad that you can see that and you didn't take the vet's advice to put her down.
Hang in there ((hugs)) to you and Bob.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate that kksuns.

The trio have been relatively quiet all night but now that the sun is coming up Santo is starting to be more "harassing" to Pinto. I'm having to get up every minute to wave Santo away from her. Bob did wake up, but he's not in here. So I think I may have to put her in her own cage while I sleep. I hate to do that to her - but it seems to be the only way to make sure she stays safe.

I'm surprised you are still awake! The things we do for our babies
Sometimes I wish their instincts were not so strong. I feel so bad that in her time of need the flock turns on her Darn birds! LOL
Do what you have to do to keep her safe mom. Maybe she will even appreciate being separated for a while so she doesn't have to be constantly on the alert.
Get some rest..Good night..errr good morning?

I did finally give in and put Pinto in the separate cage. Santo was just getting too aggressive and that was outweighing my sense that Pinto wanted to be with the flock. Pinto needs to be able to rest for a while.

Pinto and her cage are now in the living room with Bob, so that she has a happy human keeping an eye on her, talking with her, showing her she is loved. He'll make sure she gets her lettuce and millet and so on.

I'm just finishing up some security changes to the forum, and then I'll get a few hours nap!

I hope you and Pinto got some nice sleep.

I am seeing a Columbus theme with your bird names?

Well I couldn't sleep much, I had her right by the living room futon and slept on it so I'd be right there if Bob had to wake me up. She just looks so sad in her smaller cage. She sits in one place sleeping. She was so much more vibrant when she was with the other birds in her "real home". She really does look very sick now. She did eat some medicated lettuce before I went to bed, so I'll give her some more soon. That at least should help with any aches she has.

The difference from yesterday to today is startling, from her being happy and warbling with the other birds to her being hunched over her perch and just sitting there in this cage. Her eyes are closed and her poops are all watery.

But really I did have to put her in this cage for her own protection, Santo was escalating the harassment. What I should do is try to get Santo and Ivory into the smaller cage, and let Pinto roam free! That would be a challenge though. And really, Pinto looks so ill that I'm not sure she *can* fly to appreciate it, right now.

On the names, we started with Nazo because of the "Big Nazo Band" we enjoy, which is a blues band that has large puppets with big heads. Parakeet noses are fairly large. Then next we got Pinto who is like a pinto pony with white spots. Once we had a Nazo and Pinto, it seemed like a Santo Mario was destined to be next.

What about taking Santo out into the smaller cage alone for awhile. He isn't ill; he can take it. Then Pinto can hang out with Ivory, who seems less aggressive? At least Pinto can feel part of something, and Ivory might behave if Santo is out for a bit.

Santo and Ivory are a very close couple, anywhere I put Santo, Ivory would be right there sitting on top of the cage and they'd both be very upset. What I need is some sort of a plastic protective bubble for Pinto so she can be with the other parakeets but they can't nip at her.

Awwww, this is so sad. Poor little Pinto. I understand this is 'flock rules' and not human behavior, but i hope she doesn't have to die lonely.

I agree completely Jilly, I am very concerned that she feel loved and happy in her final days. We have her cage in the living room with us, and are talking and singing to her, so she feels part of "our flock". But she really is becoming more and more stationary, just sitting still and sitting with closed eyes.

Aww Im sorry she is feeling sick. It hard to lose any keet. Just like Bluey my 12 year old keet who died last year. He wasn't tame, but I loved him. I handfed him special food and amoxycillan for two weeks before he died. One day I came home and saw that he was very week. He died in my hands several hours later. Hope you and your keets feel better.

Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate your thoughts. This is a very hard time for me, she is sitting next to me looking so sad. I wish I could do something to help her. I am not getting any sleep.

It is about time for another round of medication for her, I am giving it to her by carefully "painting" a lettuce leaf tip with the medication and then hand feeding it to her to ensure she eats it all.

I just gave Pinto some more medicine, painted onto a lettuce leaf. She is getting the medicine into her, which I am very grateful for. The doctor wanted me to "force feed" the medicine, grabbing her and injecting it into her mouth. I didn't think that was a good idea at all. I am glad my gentler solution is working for now.

Her poops are almost pure liquid now. I don't know if it is the medicine or just her getting sicker. We are doing our best to nurture her gently.

well at least shes taking the meds w/out a problem. how was the flock with her after ur nap?

I have been reading this thread and it's so sad. I am so sorry for Pinto, and you. it sounds like you are doing everything you can to make her last days comfortable if not happy and well.

I have not brought Pinto back into the office room, I think she is too weak to deal with the other two keets. She has been in the living room all day with me and Bob.

In the past if we had her out of her cage she would try to fly over to the office, to be with her flock. However, today she has just laid on us (we wear sweats) and sleeps. I was offline for the past two hours or so because she had lain against my chest and didn't want to move. I didn't want to disturb her.

Unfortunately now she has solely diarrhea but my sweatshirt will wash. I will do whatever I can to help her feel loved.

I am hoping that my blog on this will help others in the same situation, to know that they are not alone, and maybe to offer some ideas.

For those who are curious about the medication it is "Meloxicam". The dosage amount I am giving her is 0.02cc which is *really* small. It is given twice a day. The vet gave me a little syringe to draw out the drop and then I use that to put the drop onto a piece of lettuce. A side effect of Meloxicam is diarrhea but at least the poor keet feels better. She eats up the lettuce very avidly, so it isn't hard to get her to take her medicine. I.e. it doesn't have an awful taste that she turns her nose up at.

Lettuce makes for runny poops too.

I'm sorry to hear that Pinto seems to be getting weaker. I know how heartbreaking it is to see her like that. My heart goes out to you and little Pinto Lisa. I am certain that Pinto feels your love for her and is comforted so much by your closeness.
Poor girl

Tweetymom - that's a very good point for others to keep in mind, in case they have a non-sick bird who happens to be overdosing on lettuce. In my case it's really not more lettuce than she gets normally, so it wouldn't be the lettuce causing this issue. It definitely began with the medicine regimine.

Pinto was really missing her flock mates so I am working in my office room today. That way Pinto can be in here and I can keep an eye on Ivory and Santo treating her well. The three are currently on their perch over the window, all in a row, sleeping. I think Pinto really missed being with her friends and she seems as content as she can be up there with them. I hope they stay this "peaceful" for a while.

Hey, that is great! I also hope they can all play nice for a while. It must be weird to have the 'flock' turn on you. Or your 'pack,' if you are a dog. Animals have deeper relationships than we are truly aware of.

I agree with that completely, animals have very intricate social networks and they feel even small changes in how they are respected by that group. Animals - especially more intelligent ones like parakeets, cats, and dogs - are far more aware than I think some scientists give them credit for! There are things only an owner really notices.

It is especially distressing in this case because it's not anything that Pinto "did". It is not like she was attacking Santo and as a result of her actions she was ostracized. It was for an illness, something her body is doing.

I'm pleased to report that today went reasonably well. I worked all day in my office room, keeping an eye on the other two birds as Pinto got to be "home". I had to shoo them away occasionally, but in general the three of them were near each other and Pinto seemed happy with that. I played a variety of music for them, and that did help a lot. I filled my tabletop fountain up with water, because they really like to listen to the gurgling noise -



so that probably helped as well. Note that you can see "fragrance sticks" near these - I like to use these instead of candles because they do not put any ash into the air.

We will put her back in the separate cage tonight when I go to bed. I don't trust the others that much. Still, I am very pleased that Pinto had a full day with her friends, and to feel part of their flock. She didn't "do much" - she just sat with them, but I think that was enough.

thats good to hear at least she got to enjoy today =)

Yes, although late in the day I went in the other room for a few minutes to spend time with my boyfriend. I barely was out of my office for 5 minutes before I heard noise. Santo was harassing Pinto. It was time to bring Pinto over into her separate cage. On one hand Pinto didn't want to go into the cage, but on the other hand once in there she could safely fluff up and get some sleep free from harm.

I gave her some medicated lettuce and she gobbled it all down, so there's no problem at all in giving her her medicine thoroughly. It's good too that she still has a healthy appetite.

But she's not sleeping well. She'll close her eyes for a few minutes, then jerk awake. Then go through the cycle again. I wonder if part of that is just her defensive reactions that have been building over the past few months, with the other keets becoming less and less friendly. Poor thing ...

Today we an odd mix. For the first half, Pinto was very sluggish and I spent a block of time laying on the couch, with her on my chest, keeping her warm and nurtured. She just lay there with her eyes closed.

But then later she got a second wind and really wanted to go be with the other birds. So I moved into my office and let her play with the others. They were being generally good and I was very happy for Pinto.

But then, about 5 minutes ago, Santo and Pinto were both sitting on the "drawbridge" at the front of the cage. All of a sudden Santo just *lunged* for Pinto's chest, as if she was a velociraptor or something! I was horrified, Pinto went plummeting backwards into the floor of the cage. I ran over. Luckily Pinto wasn't hurt, but Santo could easily have really hurt her. It wasn't a gentle tap, Santo looked like she was out for blood. It came out of nowhere!

So now Pinto is back safely in her personal cage. She didn't get hurt at all, but it was a powerful reminder to me not to let Pinto alone near the other two now that she is so sick. The other two are being nice 99% of the time, but when that "remove the sick flock member" thought hits them, it hits hard.

She looks very similar to the budgie we had when I was a child. The colouring is similar. Ours was named Beauty ~ and, sadly, Beauty developed a tumour as well.

Beauty is a lovely name for a parakeet!

Pinto is "out" with the other keets right now. She was actively trying to get out of her little cage to be with them and I felt badly for her. It is a good sign that she's energetic enough to try to "escape" to be with her flock.

So far everyone has been well behaved, but we're keeping an eye on them. They're all sleeping slightly apart so I'm sure that helps. Close enough to be a flock, not too close to be feisty.

Aw I'm glad she can be with her flock to sleep, since (didn't you say) that you had been putting her into her own cage to sleep? I know you probably won't leave her in there when you go to bed, but at least she'll be with them for awhile to sleep.

Right, that was my thought too Tweetymom. Definitely I will not leave her in there when I go to sleep. She will go back into her safe little cage (probably kicking and screaming). But for now, they all get to be fluffy and happy near each other. They are each making little warbly noises to each other every once in a while, sort of an "I'm OK, are you OK?" sort of thing. I'm sure that is very soothing to them.

I was wondering how is Pinto today?

Lisa, from your updates it sounds like the medications are really helping her have good days mostly. That is so nice.

Bob and my schedule are off now, he was up from 4-midnight while I was asleep, then I woke up and now he's asleep. He said Pinto has been "falling" a lot, i.e. trying to fly but not reaching her destination. So that is worrying. On the other hand, the other keets are not bothering her, so that is good.

Right now they are mostly sleeping and warbling to each other, so this is a nice, peaceful, serene period.

My daughter was born in 1998!
..

I am terribly sorry Lisa!
Poor pumpkin-pie.

xx[hugs to you and Pinto]
I'll check back regularly to see how both of you are doing.

This is a very troubling time and I really feel for you.
I hope that everything turns out as well as it can, under the circumstances

Well many medical professionals feel there are five stages of grief -

- denial
- anxiety
- bargaining
- depression
- acceptance

I think we are at the acceptance stage now, that we have given Pinto a long, full life and she has been generally very happy. So now we are easing her on her final days and spending a lot of time with her.

Maybe there's a bit of denial still in here too though. When I was with the vet she made it sound like Pinto would barely make it home again and I'd "better kill her now". But today I'm looking over at Pinto - who is out and spending time with her flock - and she is eating, warbling and able to fly to her favorite spots in the room. So I am less sure that the vet was accurate in thinking Pinto had only 2-3 weeks left of life.

Yes, I've been to seminars on the grief cycle (which is also the addiction recovery cycle, by the way). Main thing about grief, IMO, is that it is unique to the individual. Nobody else should tell you how long it "should" last, or what shape it "should" take.

And, IMO, talking about your loved one - Pinto - is the best way to allow the grief to become not only acceptance, but celebration (of the bonds in your heart).

The now is so important. Love Pinto now.

Also, we care.

That is very sweet, Carl, thank you. Yes I definitely am not rushing anything, I am taking my time. Every day is a new day.

It is so sweet - Pinto is in her smaller cage, sleeping. I have a cloth over the cage to help her stay warm. Ivory is on top of the cloth, sleeping, keeping Pinto company. They are warbling to each other every once in a while. Sometimes they are a very sweet flock

Aw that is so sweet that Ivory is keeping Pinto company. I haven't been able to get on line on my computer for a few days and I looked back for this post. I just wanted to check on her.

Thank you very much TweetyMom! I've been having ALL sorts of problems with my computer, and I've also been spending time off-line with the keets. So I have a lot of catching up to do.

We've been relaxing our "keep them separated" rules, they seem to be getting along better now. Before we would have to be in there constantly to keep them in line. Now, I think we only had to deal with them being a little feisty once all day. Also, Ivory and Santo have been far more tame in their "loving behavior" towards each other so I imagine that is related.

It's a little like a soap opera.

Overall, I'm glad we've been spending large blocks of time with Pinto, and that she is easing through her last days. She definitely is very quiet and stationary, but she still seems content. She warbles with the others. She drinks water, she eats food with interest. We are monitoring the temperature and humidity carefully so she has as good an environment as she can.

I know I keep saying this, but I am very glad we didn't just euthanize her when the vet pressured me to. I greatly respect the knowledge of vets, but I also think sometimes an owner - who is with their pets 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, has a closer insight into how their pet is doing. I would always suggest a pet owner go to a vet to get all the information they can, but I also think the owner needs to temper that book-knowledge with the personal insight and records they keep about their pet's day to day activity levels.

:)Lisa I'm very glad she is having an 'easy time of it' in her last days.

I agree with you on the euthanize thing. Unless my pet is in pain or misery, I believe in letting them live out their life. It is so caring of you and you're lucky to be able to be with them so much of the time!

Lisa, you said:



I agree. Our cat, Trippi, whom we've been doing wound care on for three years now, sparked this advice from one of her vets: "It's important that she feels like a cat."

We may have to do wound care, but if emotionally she no longer was able to act like a cat, her condition would worsen.

I understand that Pinto will not "get better." Yet just as humans can benefit from hospice attitudes, so can we appreciate that our pets deserve our love and attention.

Carl - that is so true. When we had Pinto in her smaller cage, she seemed very sad. She just sat there, didn't cheep, didn't move, didn't look around. When we took her out of here and let her "be a keet" again, she perked right up and was much more lively and happy seeming.

The vet kept saying to keep her quiet and stationary and alone and prevent her from flying. But I think that would have caused her to die very quickly.

So sometimes even just "treating someone like they are near death" - stuffing them in a little room, isolated, is enough to push them over the edge. It's what bothers me about the way we treat the elderly, we put them in little rooms to die, instead of surrounding them with love and affection.

Heavy thoughts. My sister cares for my Mother, who has health issues and progressively worse dementia. And my wife and I have her Mom living with us. Her health is worsening, also, and care is needed. In both the case of my sister, and of my wife and me, it becomes difficult to be able (physically) to provide the care needed.

I cannot fault whichever way a family decides they must go.

Yet, where ever the care is given, we can certainly "surround them with love and affection."

I'm so sorry to hear about the ailing family members! It is definitely very challenging to care for elder family members, because our medical technology means we can keep someone "technically" alive far longer than they might want to be.

I imagine this all is a good topic to have in the other forum member, about humans. It is a really challenging issue.

I had a really odd development today in the Pinto situation. Pinto (age 11) is almost seeming to 'stabilize' at a health level which is certainly not great, but not miserable. She eats, she fweeps, she enjoys fresh foods, and yes she has the tumor, but she manages it. She lays on the top of the door, she still flies.

But oddly, when we got home today we found that *Santo* (who is about age 10) was sitting oddly, and that some of her back below-tail feathers were splayed on one side. It's almost as if she fell down along the inside of the cage for some reason and it bent the feathers out in that area. She's acting very subdued. So now maybe we'll have to bring Santo into the vet tomorrow. They've all been getting along well the past few days, so I don't think they were fighting, there's no signs of a fight. Santo is sometimes clumsy so I wonder if she just missed a perch, fell down against the bars and it caught at some of her feathers.

It's just odd that here Pinto has a "real" problem and we've been tending to her, and now we are trying to nurse both of them at the same time. I just hope Ivory stays healthy!

Santo passed away today, it was all very sudden. Santo also had a large tumor, this one was invisible inside her though. The only way we knew is that it finally started affecting her legs - and then the radiogram showed it when we brought her in.

So here we were taking it in gentle stages with Pinto, while Ivory and Santo were wild and active and trying to make babies and hamming it up. It is amazing to me how quickly Santo went from climbing on top of Ivory and being very active to passing away.

Pinto on the other hand seems almost as healthy as ever. You can see the tumor, I will post some photos, but she is eating, flying, bathing, singing and seems very content. So I am starting to doubt that first vet, when she said Pinto only had a few days left.

On the other hand, that first vet didn't want to do a radiogram of Pinto because she said the process could easily kill her. I wouldn't have thought that was true with Pinto or Santo - but apparently it did happen to Santo. So maybe Pinto's vet was wise in warning me. I probably would have gone for the radiogram to be sure there was nothing I could do - and I would have lost Pinto right there.

I am sorry to hear this & hope that Pinto's health continues to be positive.