12 might have been a symbolic number. I think it's sometimes unclear just exactly how many disciples there were - and who they were.

We talk about the "painting is not a historic photograph" issue here -

http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/art/records.html

I believe we all know and understand that. Leonardo was an artist, he was conveying a message. He spent many years working painstakingly on his message. The question is - what message do you read in his work of art?

[quote]Originally posted by aquino: [b] First of all the painting of Da Vinci is in error. According to well known traditions the table during that time is lowered and not like the table on the painting. Secondly, Da Vinci does not have any idea at all about the last supper. He painted it according to his imagination and not facts. He does not have any idea whether who is sitting where. He was born 1400 years after the death of Christ. Not unless photography is already invented at the time when Christ died, then I would believe it. Thirdly, the painting has udergone too many changes already as per records. No one really knows what the real painting looks like except for the painter which is Da vinci himself. Fourth, according to the bible, it plainly states the 12 disciples and the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing was mentioned not even the gospel of Mary M mentioned that she was a part of the last supper. That is absurd. According to the gospel of Philip. Mary M is the beloved of Christ. If Mary M was really part of the last supper, then why did the 4 gospels omit such an important information. Are we saying that the 4 gospel is wrong in their recording. Who should I believe, four people who where there in the last supper of a person born 1400 years later? Just asking??? [/b][/quote]Hi aquino! Your premise is that Dan Brown's idea is the same with that of Da Vinci's? I have high respect for Da Vinci for being both an excellent artist and scientist. Da Vinci based his painting on accounts written on the Bible and some religious writings. He would definitely verify the facts himself. I’m sure Da Vinci had read the 4 gospels in its entirety. But being an artist, he considered some innovations but not necessarily to bring about an entirely new message. One is the long, high table. This could be because Da Vinci wanted the characters be viewed properly by spreading them out. Also, the Last Supper is painted as if it’s daytime. It could be because the artist would want to have the viewers to have a real picture of the characters’ reactions. Other than these, I can say that Da Vinci painted this masterpiece based on his interpretation of the Bible. Dan Brown’s idea is entirely different from that of Da Vinci’s. Lastly, the Bible clearly identified John the apostle as the one being addressed to as “the beloved”. That’s a fact!

It is very untrue that Jewish men were forbidden to marry. John the Baptist was unmarried. Read more here -

http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/art/celibacy.html

Also on this same page it explains that nowhere does it say "mouth". It just says Jesus kissed her. He could have kissed her on the hand.

[quote]Originally posted by Jopads: [b] ... the Bible clearly identified John the apostle as the one being addressed to as “the beloved”. That’s a fact! [/b][/quote]Not as far as I am aware. Where does the Bible say this? We actually have threads on this subject. Have a look and then tell us what you think. Topic: 'The disciple whom Jesus loved' http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000165#000000 Topic: The Beloved Disciple http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000259#000000

Look in John 21:20 about a conversation between Peter and Jesus...
Also regarding the picture itself, The person beside Jesus, compared to the other beings, does not look like a man, but like the quote from The Da Vinci Code movie itself "the eye sees what it wants"
The issue I have with the picture is, Was Leonardo at the Lord's Supper? I think not! Also Leonardo could have painted that picture to resemble anyone he wanted so...

Welcome to the forum khutch3

If a person does not look like a man, maybe it's because it is meant to be a woman.

Was the beloved disciple a woman? Is that what Leonardo thought?
Or did he just paint some effeminate-looking young men?
Either way, does it shed any light on the question of whether Mary Magdalene was at this meal?
Obviously Leonardo was not at the Last Supper, but he may well have heard of the tradition describing Mary M as Jesus's companion who he loved particularly, etc.

I'm going to look into that Bible quote that you mention.

Bible reference given by khutch3 re 'the disciple whom Jesus loved':


John 21:20 New International Version:

20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") 21When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"

22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"

24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

If this really refers to a 'he', then this particular quote could not apply to Mary Magdalene.

I would like to know if the same author really did write about 'the beloved disciple' here and at the 'last supper' and also whether the gender is truly male, or if it has changed in translation.