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#77515 - 11/22/06 10:45 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
terryluvsgoldens Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 1790
Loc: New York State
I do not think women were left out of the Last Supper or the passover, as it is not an all male
celebration. Women on the most part are just left out in the mentioning on the most part because of the status they held in society.

The only thing we know is the 12 disciples were there, and it is assumed by logical reasoning that
women were there.
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#77516 - 11/22/06 11:23 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
Well, we don't actually know anything. Not really.
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#77517 - 11/23/06 02:34 AM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
terryluvsgoldens Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 1790
Loc: New York State
ok let's try this rephrasing
we know from what was written or recorded and can assume by logical reasoning that other events or scenerio's happenedbased on the customs of the culture at the time. laugh
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#77518 - 11/24/06 05:49 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
Manda Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2
Loc: california
Their are Many debates on who the person is next to jesus on the picture of the last supper, and how similar it looks to mary in madona on the rocks, well look at the Mona Lisa (who is supposed to be both man and women) Is it Possible that that theory could fit with the last supper as well? and maybe even the madona on the rocks? If you look the "person" in all three paintings look strangely similar.
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#77519 - 11/24/06 07:25 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
There is an art researcher, called Maike Vogt-Luerssen who thinks that the same model posed for many of the females, in Leonardo's works, and that this woman's son, who resembled her, posed for a lot of the males.

This person's website doesn't seem to be available any longer, unfortunately.


Have a look here:

http://www.pep-web.org/document.php?id=paq.55.01300.fig_3.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/17/21197512_e36a7655fe_m.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/davidparsonsd/Da%20Vinci/53leonardo_john_baptist2_detail.jpg



Above are Leonardo da Vinci's: 'John the Baptist'; 'The Beloved Disciple'; 'The Virgin of the Rocks'.
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#77520 - 11/25/06 02:02 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
Berzelmayr Offline
Companion

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 100
Well, who was the real model for the Apostle John in the "Last Supper"? Several people including myself came to the conclusion that Salai, his student and model, should be the #1 candidate (he was described by Vasari as "a graceful and beautiful youth with fine curly hair, in which Leonardo greatly delighted.") Look at these two pictures that are said to be portraits of Salai:


(as a preteen, shortly after he joined Leonardo's household)


(as a young teenager)

And then have a look at this obscene drawing (Leonardo-experts say it's an authentic work of Leonardo):



This is again believed to be Salai. It does not only remind very much to Leonardo's "John the Baptist" (including the gesture), but also showing a face - especially if you imagine the lad with closed eyes and without the smile - that is a perfect match to John from the "Last Supper". Veritas has done a morph-experiment with these two pictures on his site: http://www.historyvsthedavincicode.com/chapterfiftyeight.htm#salai? . You'll see that lipps, nose and the shape of face are more similar than in the case of the "Virgin of the Rocks".
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#77521 - 11/25/06 03:35 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
'said to be' 'believed to be' ~

Before going any further, how sure are we that the images, which are supposed to be of Salai, actually are depictions of him?
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#77522 - 11/25/06 03:36 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
sketch56 Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 319
Loc: U.S.A.
Poor Leonardo , he must be laughing at everyone when it comes to his work.
Leonardo still speakes to us from beond , what kind of art do you think he is drawing for us know?
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#77523 - 11/25/06 03:40 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
sketch56 Offline
Good Friend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 319
Loc: U.S.A.
I think some of the pictures are foolish and I don't see this in Leonardo's work , also the pictures are to flat to be Leonardo's
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The painter who darws merely by practice and by eye, without reason, is like a mirror which copies everything placed in front of it without being concious of their existence.

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#77524 - 11/25/06 03:52 PM Re: John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by sketch56:
I think some of the pictures are foolish and I don't see this in Leonardo's work , also the pictures are to flat to be Leonardo's
Which pictures are you talking about?
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