Freejohn, if we can keep on topic and be civil, we can continue.

I don't know whether or not the Pope gave the Queen a rosary.

You saw it; your acquaintance saw it, but we have no evidence.

So there are two issues:

Did the Pope give the queen a rosary?

Is it wrong for the pope to give the queen a rosary.

As far as the first question is concerned, it either happened or it didn't. There's no room for debate there.

The more important question, as far as debate goes, is whether the RC Pope should give the Protestant Queen of England / Head of the Church of England, a rosary.

I've already made my comment ~ I don't know.

Under normal circumstances, for a Roman Catholic to give a Protestant a Roman Catholic rosary might seem thoughtless - deliberately provocative, even - unless it had some sentimental value for that person.

However, here we have the one specific person on earth, who represents Roman Catholicism. He is head of state as well as head of his church.

The queen opted to visit the pope and opted to visit the Vatican. It was her choice to enter the Roman Catholic state.

The pope gave her a gift ~ a representative gift.

If I were to give someone a 'representative' gift; I would choose something specifically connected with my country or my city.

You used the vegetarian metaphor, earlier.

Say I was a butcher and I owned a butchers shop. Every time I had an official visitor, I might choose to give him a side of beef. Say a vegetarian came on an official visit. You might say that it would be wrong to hand over my usual gift ~ but I might say, what is a vegetarian doing in a butchers shop, if he finds meat so offensive? I'm not saying that I would present him with meat, but it would be an unusual situation.

PDM,

First of all, I don't believe that the Pope (current or previous) ever gave the Queen of England (and the Head of the Church of England) a rosary.

For the purposes of argument, let's say he did.

Can anyone, including freejohn, say with absolute certitude that is wasn't an Anglican rosary? In this vein, I'd really like to hear how freejohn, or anyone else, could tell the difference. I don't think that I could. If he can, can he explain the differences?

A Rosary, in no way, shape, matter or form has to do with the worship of Mary, The "Hail Mary" has its roots both scripture (the passage in Luke I referred to earlier) and the concept of intercessory prayer.

Intercessory Prayer has a number of facets. Intercessory prayer includes that we pray for each other. However, because we believe in the "Communion of Saints", it also means that we can ask for a particular saint to intercede, most particularly a patron saint, with God.

The Church of England ascribes to the notion of the "Communion of Saints". What basically a rosary is is a device that requests intercession from the Virgin Mary for what we have failed to live up in the Gospels.

freejohn,

You've already said that you don't necessary believe in the summary of the faith as expressed in the Nicene Creed. When you said that you didn't or were reluctant to say the part that says: "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church".

This isn't a Chinese restaurant where you can pick and choose what you want and don't. You don't get to say, "I want one from column A, and two from column B."

In fact, the entire belief of the "Communion of Saints" is the foundation of intercessory prayer.

You can say what you want. That doesn't change what is, and was, and will be,

PDM,
You admitted that you do not like when on other forums they change threads,erase them etc.
So why do you do it on this forum them.
.Jesus said:
Treat others as you would like to be treated.
So I suggest that you leave thread headings alone and do not erase them,as you do not like that being done to you.
The truth has prevailled ,the dragon is slain and cannot be denied.The meaning of 666 has been exposed in this situation.
As regards your saying that this topic may continue if civil and so on.Its my topic and perhaps I should ban you from making comments on it ......but ,I do not serve the dragon.
love your enemy.

PDM
SHOWING RESPECT FOR WHAT OTHER PEOPLE BELIEVE IS WHAT ALL THIS IS ABOUT AND NOT WHAT YOU THINK IS BEST OF RIGHT.
THE POPE PUTTING THE CATHOLIC ROSARY IN THE QUEENS HANDS CONTRARY TO HER BELIEFS WAS JUST THE SAME KIND OF ACT AS YOU CHANGING MY THREAD HEADING TO WHAT YOU THOUGHT.
IT WAS MY TOPIC HEADING AND NOT YOURS.
I WOULD HAVE THE GOOD MANNERS NOT TO ALTER YOUR HEADINDS.WE SHOULD RESPECT EACH OTHERS BELIEFS AND CREATIVITY.