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#83371 - 06/08/06 10:56 AM Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
freejohn Offline
Companion

Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 172
A few years ago was a good opportunity to better relations between the catholic and protestant church when the queen visited the vatican.The common denominator we all share being Jesus.
But as always even today the catholic establishment showed its bad manners by trying to put into the hands of a protestant one of its gimmicks without even thier knowledge.
I knew something was amiss when the pope put the closed box present in the queens hands with a dodgy look in his eye and without the good manners to show first what was in the box.He wanted to show the whole catholic world the queen of england holding one of the stongest catholic symbols infront of the TV.Perhaps when he visits buckingham Palace ,we should put a oil painting of Martin luther in his hands first covered in paper.
I am vegetarian and would not expect that when I visited a house of fanatical meat eaters that they would put meat on my plate.They would give me food acceptable to both me and them.But the catholic leaders are so desparate and insecure that they had to put a closed box of rosary beads in her hands.This is the kind of bad mentallity you are dealling with,basically forcing something onto you.You cannot trust them at all,without principle.
If the pope had opened the box first to show the beads ,I am sure the queen would never have touched it as would have been right.
A bible or cross as a present would have been
respectful to all concerned.Offer me roast beef in your home and I will not eat it.

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#83372 - 06/08/06 01:08 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
SouthSideSlim Offline
Companion

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Cartersville, GA
freejohn,

As I've posted elsewhere's, the Church of England (along with the associated Anglican Communion) is not a Protestant denomination, it is a Catholic denomination.
_________________________
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

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#83373 - 06/08/06 06:14 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
freejohn Offline
Companion

Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 172
Hello, South Slim ,but sorry to dissapoint
you,but as with sweden Norway holland Denmark and other countries they are protestant with no ties to that old man in italy your pope.Orginally yes we were tied to your pope ,quite in the sense of the word.By force we had to put up with it or be burnt at the stake or something nasty like that.But we protested and got free from the old man in Italy and Jesus became our true leader.We managed to get bibles also translated into a language we could understand and read for ourselves.The old man and his representatives had denied us that.
Did not do latin in my church either and did not have to tell the church leader my sins either.Thats the guy in the frock that you confess to.And only god knows what his sins are because he confessess to noone.Or perhaps the guys in the frocks come together once a week and have a kind of sin party where they all confess to each other.Perhaps they have a prize for sin of the week.John Cleese and monty python would have enjoyed doing a performance on that.
Sorry that the catholic church does not have a monopoly on god and jesus anymore and I am sure that you will manage to cope with that fact...?
like the earth is now round or was is flat?
or is it still flat???
Catholic churches do exist in England and sweden and so on..and yes catholics go there not protestants.Jesus rules not the pope.Jesus is the head of my church not those guys down in Italy.
But they do have better weather down there.

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#83374 - 06/08/06 07:12 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
SouthSideSlim Offline
Companion

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Cartersville, GA
I'll say this for the second time. The English Reformation was a socio-political event and occurred in 1534. The Protestant Reformation, however, was a theological event in 1517. They are not the same.

From Wikipedia: "The different character of the English Reformation came rather from the fact that it was driven initially by the political necessities of Henry VIII."

The Episcopal Church is a member of the Anglican Communion. The Anglican Communion's main church is the Church of England. I'm an Episcopalian. To Anglican's, the Pope is simply the Bishop of Rome.

The Episcopal Church in the United States (and throughout the Anglican Communion) is hierarchial. The head of the Diocese of Atlanta is the Bishop of Atlanta. This is just like the Roman Catholic's.

Episcopalian's, including myself, sometimes refer to ourselves as Anglican Catholics.

While confession is considered to be one of the seven sacrements (just like the Roman), we have no requirement for an individual confession, but it is available if desired. During the course of the Mass, we do have a prayer referred to as the "General Confession" that each of us says aloud.

Now if all of the above doesn't convince you that the Church of England is closer to being Catholic than Protestant...

During the course of the Mass, we recite in unision, a summary of our faith, The Nicene Creed (so do the Romans). One of the lines in it goes, "I believe in one holy catholic, and apostolic church".
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

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#83375 - 06/08/06 07:24 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
kateyes Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 1866
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
posted by southsideslim---As I've posted elsewhere's, the Church of England (along with the associated Anglican Communion) is not a Protestant denomination, it is a Catholic denomination.
I do not know the source of your information--but I have checked a variety of places and with people including Anglicans(and Episcopalians in the US)--C of E, the Anglican Church, and Episcopalians--are not considered Catholic--but are a Protestant denomination. They do not answer to the Pope in any fashion--worship in the language of the country--not Latin. Even Wikipedia says the following:

Quote:
Anglicanism developed as a distinctive theological tradition at approximately the same time as the Protestant Reformation in the Holy Roman Empire, although the immediate reasons for the Church of England breaking from Rome were political rather than theological. The Anglican Communion does not recognize the jurisdiction of the Pope, and is thus clearly not a branch of the Roman Catholic Church.................The Anglican-Roman Catholic International Consultation reached agreement on the doctrine of the ministry in their Elucidation of 1979 [1], but the Roman Catholic Church continues to assert that Anglican ordinations are "invalid" due to its interpretation of doctrine and history and some Anglican bodies reject the teaching that the Sacraments are necessarily attached to Apostolic succession............ According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Vatican views Anglicans as "separated brothers and sisters" who are ineligible to receive the Catholic eucharist.
Although the reason for the separation of the Anglican and Roman Catholic church began as a political issue(rather than a religious one like other protestant denominations)--it was firmly established as a Protestant Church by Elizabeth I--who definately considered herself a Protestant.
_________________________
"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. And that is my religion." Abraham Lincoln

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#83376 - 06/08/06 08:10 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
SouthSideSlim Offline
Companion

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Cartersville, GA
There is a difference between being Anglican Catholic and Roman Catholic. As I stated in my previous post, one of the parts of the Holy Eucharist is the recitation of the Nicene Creed. It contains the line "I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church". You can see for yourself at http://www.bcponline.org/.

I realize that as an Anglican I am not able to receive at an RC Church even though I've been both baptized and confirmed. Romans, however, can receive at an AC Church.

My wife and I are the Godmother and Godfather of our nephew who was baptized in a Roman Catholic Church. His didn't think we could be because we're Episcopalians. His preist told him differently.

Yes, I realize that about Elizabeth I. At the time, the Episcopal Church was known as "The Protestant Episcopal Church". The "Protestant" part was dropped well over 25 years (as you will note in the link above).

BTW, we also use the same liturgical calendar as the Romans.
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

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#83377 - 06/08/06 09:06 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
SouthSideSlim Offline
Companion

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Cartersville, GA
I had to step away for a moment, so consider this an addendum to what I posted previously.

The point of my initial post to freejohn was that there was absolutely nothing "underhanded" about the Pope giving the Queen a rosary.

A rosary isn't just a bunch of beads, there's a crucifix as well. If recollection serves, I believe he said that if it had been a cross it would have been OK. Granted, a crucifix and a cross are different things, but that's taking it to an unnecessary extreme.
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est

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#83378 - 06/08/06 11:18 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by SouthSideSlim:
freejohn,

As I've posted elsewhere's, the Church of England (along with the associated Anglican Communion) is not a Protestant denomination, it is a Catholic denomination.
But not Roman Catholic! It is Protestant, surely! It is the result of the English Reformation, with the Queen, not the Pope, at its head.

I was friendly with an Anglican Catholic priest; he didn't class himself as being a member of the Roman Catholics.

Yes the services are almost identical - especially in high church - my RC cousin was amazed when she was my bridesmaid and discovered that the Anglican service was almost identical to the RC one, but Anglicans are still classed as Protestants.
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#83379 - 06/08/06 11:26 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
Here's some info: [i]'The use of prayer beads, or Rosaries, has not been common to Anglican prayer life. Many objections have been raised on apparent ‘Marian’ nature of the Catholic Rosary. However, there is a growing interest in the tradition of using prayer beads as an aid to contemplative prayer. Anglican Prayer Beads (Rosary) arose out of a contemplative prayer group lead by Rev. Lynn Bauman from the Episcopal church in the United States. Since its inception in the 1980’s it has grown in popularity among those seeking to enrich their prayer life.'[/i] http://www.franciscan.org.au/anglicanrosary.html
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#83380 - 06/08/06 11:31 PM Re: Pope gave queen rosary beads in underhand way
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22732
Loc: UK
From Wikipedia:

'some Anglicans regard their faith to be well within the Protestant tradition, other Anglicans - especially Anglo-Catholics - consider Anglicanism to be an extension of the Catholic Church. Many conclude that the Anglican Church is a Protestant church that maintains significant continuity with the ancient churches, and is therefore a universal - or "catholic" - church.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglicanism
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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