As for PDM .
The catholic church and its clergy should first get harmony with the words and wishes of jesus christ,then perhaps The C of E can then get in harmony with the catholic church.
How can the C of E get in harmony with the catholic church that does not do as christ wishes.
We are not catholic because we do not praise mary or confess our sordid sins in detail to a priest.
I do not expect you and slim will ever see the objective truth written here as you have both originate from families in the catholic church and do not want to except the facts.So I will repeat the previous exercise so you cannot overlook these facts.
C of E cannot get in harmony with the catholic church because they praise mary and confess sin to priest.
Co of E cannot get in harmony with the catholic church because they praise mary and confess sin to a priest.
C of E cannot get in harmony with the catholic church because they praise mary and confess sins to a priest.
The protestants Mr slim will never recognise the clergy of the catholic church for reasons as above.Never Mr Slim.We will not respect those that do not respect the words and wishes of christ.
Nothing more....

freejohn, The following is from "The Anglican – Orthodox Dublin Agreed Statement 1984" "All prayer is ultimately addressed to the Trinitarian God. We pray to God the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit. The Church is united in a single movement of worship with the Church in heaven, with the Blessed Virgin Mary, ‘with angels and archangels and all the company of heaven’. The Orthodox also pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary and Theotokos and the saints as friends and living images of Christ. (p 34, para 66)" The "Seattle Papers", released recently by the Anglican Roman Catholic Internal Committe, includes statements such as, "Mary is agreed to be the fullest example of the life of grace, she is alive in Christ and we should walk together with her, Christ’s foremost disciple" and, "ARCIC argues that all ministries of the Church use human means, but that this mediation does not lessen that of Christ. The prayer of the Church stands in Christ, not as a parallel prayer, and is enabled by the Holy Spirit. Asking friends to pray for us does not conflict with Christ’s work, but is a ‘means whereby this can be displayed’. Stretching this point further, we pray in the company of the faithful both here and departed, and for some this intuition of the presence of departed friends deepens a sense of being in Christ across time and in solidarity with the saints, especially with Mary. We are bidden in Scripture to ask others to pray for us, and we can again stretch this to the faithful departed in the body of Christ; requests for assistance in prayer can be made to holy members of the communion of saints. This notion is not directly found in Scripture, but on the other hand is not unscriptural, argues ARCIC, not discussing the Old Testament tradition against making contact with the dead. ARCIC teaches that no practice must obscure the trinitarian economy of grace." and... "Anglicans are said to have given Mary a new prominence in worship through liturgies, and a ‘re-reception’ of the place of Mary is claimed to have taken place by both Churches. She is seen by both communions as the New Eve and a type of the Church. ARCIC stresses the place of Mary with the saints in their ongoing prayer for the Church in history. Mary is inseparably linked to Christ and the Church." and... "John’s Gospel notes Jesus’ words from the cross to his disciples, ‘behold your mother’, indicating not only a real care for her but also a wider motherly role for Mary in the Church, according to ARCIC. Jesus addresses Mary directly from the cross as ‘woman’, and ARCIC expands this with a Mary-Eve typology, affirming that Mary is on a spiritual level ‘mother of all who gain true life from the water and blood that flow from the side of Christ’." The Church of England is in agreement with this, no matter what you say. They are the primary Anglican members of the committe. You can (but I doubt you will) read the entire document at: http://www.anglicancommunion.org/ecumenical/dialogues/rc/arcic/mary/commentary.cfm This will be my last post on this topic. The Church of England uses the Nicene Creed as a summary of what its members believe, including the statement that we are part of "one holy catholic, and apostlic church." I've pointed you to the the "Reconciliation of a Pentient" is the C of E's Book of Common Prayer. It is a private confession to a priest, and the confidentially of it is absolute. You may drag out the same old stuff, but as I think I've demonstrated above, and in other posts, doing so will not make you right and me wrong. You know little, if anything, about the Church of England to make statements like, "C of E cannot get in harmony with the catholic church because they praise mary and confess sins to a priest." Please don't bother to reply unless you have read the ARCIC document.

Slim, like I say, you're banging your head against a wall here!

We are talking about something that never happened, anyway. No rosary. You and I know that, but if Freejohn wants to believe there was a rosary, that's up to him. You won't change his mind, cos he's convinced he's right, and to hell with the evidence.

I do think that Jesus would have shaken his head at the squabbles between rival 'Christian' sects, each one claiming to be the 'true church'. I wonder if any of them really are. I daresay Jesus would not even recognise modern Christianity. But hey, that's what happens with religion.....it gets distorted by men, sometimes deliberately, sometimes not.

I'm going to amend my previous post. I will not respond to freejohn. Every one else, I will.

Joe,

First of all, you're right about me "banging my head". I won't do it any more.

Yeah, he has no "evidence" either that there was or rosary or that he knows about the C of E. Everything has been opinion, and opinion only. Well, opinions are like noses. Everyone has one. Whether or not they can be supported is another matter entirely.

Having said that, I think that the two major issues that separate the Anglican and Roman churches are, at best, minor. For them, it's the issue of our ordaining women. For us, it's Marian dogma. I think that both have lost sight of the Church's purpose and we're really nit picking.

I think you could be right here.

Have you looked at this thread:

Topic: Would Jesus be a Christian today?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000288;p=1

It starts with a quote from you, Joe.

Ok then slim ,you really dropped yourself in it this time.As for joe cloggs he has not got a clue about what the fundamental argument revolves around.
The central issue that is also relavent to the catholic rosary beads is that protestants do not believe in the praise of mary.
The anglican church has tried to suit a cross spectrum of believers and as such some of its rituals and structure are similar to the roman catholic church.
However the definate approval by the anglican church of the praise of mary would mean that protestants like me would dissasociate ourselves from it.
But finally slim as tried to provide evidence of his support of the praise of mary.
Slim needs his espicopal church and its rituals.
At the end of the day Mr Bloggs ,I would not need the C oF E. I only need jesus christ.I could worship him under a tree according to his wishes.If the C of E gets further hoodwinked by people like mr slim then that would be.
It is mr slim who is part of a sect.Mr bloggs ,you have no clue about what a real christian is.As regards the anglican dublin thing.Of course in a catholic country the anglicans there might be more in favour of mary but certainly not in protestant england.
The anglican church world wide covers a wiode range of churches from the far left to the far right to borrow a phrase used in politics.
Mr bloogs you are quite ignorant indeed about what this argument is over.
Its mr slim with his seattle pappers ,speci9al anglican prayer and using those top defend his argument.He needs that kind of thing.
I am a protestant and I do not need any established church if required.Mr slim would be like a lost sheep in the desert without all his
liturgies,priests,beads,confession boxs,popes,bishops,reconcilliation of pentanant.
I have sais before mr bloogs,I do not care about the theartre of the c of e church as long as its not to far gone down the road close to being too catholic.The I would be off under my tree.
I need no church mr blogg,just jesus
I need no church mr bloog ,just jesus
I need no church mr bloog, just jesus

As for mr slim he will always need his church and all his creeds ,beads ,hail marys,bishops etc.He would be a lost shep without them.
You have both been beat fair and square on this argument.
Just to be clear.
Mr Slim will always need the escopital church.
Mr slim will always need the espcopital church.
I can always build my own church on word of christ.
I can always build my own church on word of christ.
Spot the difference Mr bloogs.Surely you can??

The nicene prayer is something I do not like when used in the C Of E,it was designed as a compromise to the catholics to keep them in.But I never say that sentence you refer too.And usually thank god we recite the lords prayer designed by jesus!!
You need your church mr slim and would be like a lost sheep without it.Ultimately if it came down to it ,I could survive with my worship of christ very well without the C oF e.Wrong Mr BOGG AGAIN!!

Never mind, I can see it is public.

Freejohn, you call me ignorant? You say I don't know what's going on? That's a laugh coming from you, mate. You haven't the faintest clue about the history of Christianity, or the history of anything else for that matter. You're so wrapped up in your own self-righteous arrogance that you can't begin to see just how uneducated and misinformed you really are.

You haven't won any argument, in fact you haven't made any argument. All you have done is spout the same old misinformed drivel over and over and over again, without any evidence to back anything up. That isn't an argument, it's just sheer pigheadedness.

What is the fundamental thread of the argument? It keeps changing. The original thread was, according to you, that the Pope shouldn't have given the Queen a rosary. The Pope never gave the Queen a rosary. It never happened. You said you had evidence that the Queen was offended by the non-existent gift, but you never produced this so-called evidence. Is that how you expect to win an argument....by simply lying?

Then you started babbling on about rosaries being offensive to Protestants etc, as though you had the authority to speak for all Protestants. In reality, while you can speak for yourself, it's sheer arrogance to believe you can speak for others.

Again, I ask you.....How do you know what Jesus said? Hmmm? How?

Oh dear mr Blogg,
A very articulate attack on my uniformed standpoint,so much so you yet again as slim you avoid the issues at stake.
It does not take a library of history to know the diffence between the protestants and catholics.
We do have a lot of similarities,bloogy, but and some differences bloogy,soory mate ,but we do not do rosary praise of mary and no confession either.Fortunately that is the position of the C of E as its protestant dominated and when its gets too catholic the I would be off mate under that tree.
Thats something slim could never do,he needs his church and its trippings.He can fool you with his excellent knowlege of religious history,
but when you but orange juice in a empty cola can,its still orange juice.
Its not arrogance bloggy,catholics praise mary and all protestants do not..spot the difference again!!!
You are not a great judge ,as you are not even convinced what jesus said.
As for slim he kept repeated his irrelavent religious rhetoric.
Historical details about the anglican church and so what.
Certain facts to try and support the praise of mary and so what.
The facts are this ,that the C of E does a lot of similar things to the roman catholics with bishops,similar clergy,the bible,worship of jesus,
But its protestant and thats why we do not use the rosary in praise of mary or have confession box,s in the churches.
Its that simple mate,slim can try and avoid those 2 fundamental differences...his tact.It fooled you,but not me...and by now PDM has prob seen through that smoke screen.
Just to repeat.PROTESTANTS DO NOT DO THJE ROSARY OR WOSHIP MARY OR GO TO CONFESSION.....because guess what,its a mind blowing reason.
WE ARE PROTESTANTS.......just like the queen is.