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#219220 - 10/09/07 02:14 PM 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY
PDM Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22788
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: nanago
Mary in Italian is short for Maria, this is a fact!, It does not matter if Leonardo was Italian or not it has no play on the name chosen by Leonardo.
Note the name Mary, as in Mary Magdalean!
There is proof of Leonardo using optical illusion in most of his work from a young age to his twilight ages and Leonardo writes of the use of this in his notes very clearly, the Experts have totally missed this.


Originally Posted By: Grrr82cu
"So, enough on this. Leonardo didn’t paint the folds of cloth on the forearm of The Mona Lisa to form the name “Mary” in English. Leonardo painted many fabrics with elaborate folds, peaks and valleys, and Vasari wasn’t the lying scoundrel just trying to sell his books as accused."

Originally Posted By: nanago
Grrr82CU:
Euclid used the letter "Y" in his Arabic Language,250-325 BC.
Ptolemy, Also used the "Y", 250-325 BC.
Pythagoras, Also used the letter "Y" in Greek, Language.

da Vinci studied all three men faithfully when he was studying Astronomy and mathematics etc.
In Da Vinci's own handwriting, Manuscripts / Codex and Symbols, he also reveals he used this letter and others.

Why would I let out all my research at this time and point, but I did point you in a direction, now if You want Grrr82CU you can research this for yourself, I have spent 4 years on this.

Originally Posted By: Grrr82CU
Did Euclid, Ptolemy, and Pythagoras use the letter "Y" ??

What did all three have in common that would have attracted Leonardo to study them ??

Could Leonardo have used the "Y" said to be seen in the works of Euclid, Ptolemy, and Phythagoras as the last letter of the name "Mary" deliberately painted into the folds of cloth on the forearm of The Mona Lisa as suggested by the "da Vinci Project, Research Group" ??

The answers...in a day or two when time permits.

...and Grrr82CU smile

Originally Posted By: PDM
I have been reading about the letter 'Y'. I hadn't realised that it was so interesting:

'.. the Pythagorean Letter Y (Littera Pythagorae Y), which is perhaps less well known nowadays than the other Pythagorean symbols, but has been quite influential in European art, literature and thought ..'

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PT/Intro.html#Y
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/category/fibs-that-tell-no-lies/
http://vunex.blogspot.com/2006/11/garden-of-forking-paths.html
http://vunex.blogspot.com/2006/11/de-bry-ypsilon.html

Originally Posted By: nanago
...
Euclid, Ptolemy, and Pythagoras, The History of these people are very important.
I can also tell you that the letter "Y" was also used as a symbol by the Templar/Masons in the 12th Century, and yes before you ask I do have proof of this.
Grrr82CU The letter "Y",has been used in more different ways than you and I can even Imagine!


Edited by Lisa Shea (12/29/12 11:32 PM)
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"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#219281 - 10/09/07 09:46 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: PDM]
Grrr82CU Offline
Companion

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Chicago, IL
To help set discussion in this new forum in motion, the following is a redacted post entered by this writer on 10/03/07 in “Leonardo’s Painting, A Fatal Flaw ??”

The da Vinci Project, Research Group presents the word 'Mary' in highlight supposedly painted into the folds of The Mona Lisa’s right forearm by Leonardo (which was later argued that he did so based upon his study of Euclid, Ptolemy, and Pythagoras).

So…what's wrong with the name 'Mary' on The Mona Lisa’s sleeve ??

"Leonardo did not speak or write in English (and neither did Euclid, Ptolemy, or Pythagoras).

If Leonardo was going to write the “true name” of the painting known as “The Mona Lisa” on the forearm of her right sleeve as argued that he did by a representative of the "da Vinci Project, Research Group", what language would Leonardo most likely have chosen ??

Hebrew/Aramaic ?? his own Italian ?? English ?? Egyptian/Arabic ?? Greek ??

If Leonardo used his native language (Italian), he would have painted the folds of cloth to spell out 'Maria', which of course he didn't since that name will not fit the folds of cloth on The Mona Lisa’s arm as he painted it.

If Leonardo had chosen instead to represent the name of “Mary” in her native language (Judeo-Aramaic) he would have painted the folds of cloth to be traceable as 'Maryam' (derived from the Hebrew “Miriam”) but which once again he did not.

What about choosing English ??

If Leonardo had written in the English of his day, it bore absolutely no resemblance to today’s English !! Try reading Canterbury Tales in Chaucerian English just for starters (Chaucer lived 1343 – 1400).

In the following example from Luke 8 in the English of Leonardo’s day, note the name of 'Mary Magdalene':

Originally Posted By: Luke 8:1-3
Syððan wæs geworden þæt he ferde þurh þa ceastre and þæt castel: godes rice prediciende and bodiende. and hi twelfe mid. And sume wif þe wæron gehælede of awyrgdum gastum: and untrumnessum: seo [color:#CC0000][b]magdalenisce maria ofþære seofan deoflu uteodon: and iohanna chuzan wif herodes gerefan: and susanna and manega oðre þe him of hyra spedum þenedon.[/b][/color]


Observe that even in early English, 'Mary' was 'Maria'just like in Leonardo’s Italian so the "Y" the "da Vinci Project, Research Group" spokesperson argues Leonardo attached to "Mar.." to form "Mar-Y" did not come from early English as it would from today's English. Trying to write "Mary" based upon the Greek or Arabic of Leonardo's day (and that of Euclid, Ptolemy, or Pythagoras) will be addressed in another entry.

After this post was originally entered (in the other forum) discussion was exchanged wherein one or more representatives of the “da Vinci Project, Research Group” argued that their research indicates “Mary” was in use colloquially (in one form or another) in Leonardo’s time which in turn provided the basis for him to have painted it as a “non-modern English name” on the sleeve of the Mona Lisa.

It is about at this juncture in the discussion in the other forum, that this new board was opened specific to the topic of the “Y” in relation to being combined into the name "Mar-Y".

This writer is preparing a response to address in greater detail whether or not Leonardo’s study of Euclid, Ptolemy, and Pythagoras would have led him to use a 'Y' (in 'Mar-Y') instead of an “IA” (in 'Mar-IA') as contended by the "da Vinci Project, Research Group".

When it is finished (no sooner than several days from now due to extremely limited available time), it will be posted here rather than the previous base of discussions which was “Leonardo’s Painting – A Fatal Flaw ??

…and Grrr82CU smile


Edited by Lisa Shea (12/29/12 11:32 PM)
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Thanks For Visiting !!

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#219310 - 10/10/07 08:18 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: Grrr82CU]
PDM Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22788
Loc: UK
Thanks!
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#219354 - 10/10/07 12:23 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: PDM]
nanago Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
The "Y" was also used with the Masons and Templars in the Year 1100 BC. as a Symbol and a Mark..

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#219477 - 10/11/07 04:05 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: nanago]
PDM Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22788
Loc: UK
1100BC??

I don't think that the Masons or Templars were around then??!!
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#219524 - 10/11/07 10:06 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: PDM]
nanago Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
If you were a 'Mason or Templar', you would understand that both these Orders used the "Y" in there Symbols and Marks, but one would have to be deeply involved in this to see and understand the Truth!!??

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#219528 - 10/11/07 10:38 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: nanago]
nanago Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
Just to name a few places where the "Y" ,was used in Symbols dating from 1100, 12th Century

Crypt of Canterbury Cathedral
Lumley Castle
Bolton Castle 12,
York Minaster

I can tell you one thing for sure, being part of and having a background with family in the orders dating back over 4 hundred years that the Letter 'Y" was used in many ways! But it is Not for me to explain how or why, that is up to you to research.



Edited by nanago (10/11/07 10:41 AM)

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#219536 - 10/11/07 11:06 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: nanago]
nanago Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
Some other places the :Y" was used.

Rosslyn Chapel,
http://www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk/mason's_marks.htm

Monserrat, Spain.
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/spain/montserrat-shrine.htm


Now under this link from Monserrat in Spain you will also see in the first picture that everything Jesus and the men around him are holding are both Masonic and "Templar Symbols", everything
http://mailcenter3.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/...7348&sid=c0

The Montserrat Virgin was found in a cave on top of the mountain in the 800's. It was a site of pilgrimage and a monastery was founded there several hundred,

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Montserrat,_Spain




Edited by nanago (10/11/07 11:24 AM)

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#219660 - 10/12/07 04:45 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: nanago]
PDM Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22788
Loc: UK
So you are talking 'AD', not 'BC'.

That does make quite a difference.
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#219764 - 10/12/07 10:43 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: PDM]
nanago Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.

Vatican paper set to clear Knights Templar
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/05/wvatican105.xml


http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/...4f84&k=7416



Knights Templar win heresy reprieve after 700 years

The Templars, whose full name was "Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon," were founded in 1119 by knights sworn to protecting Christian pilgrims visiting the Holy Land after the Crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099.
The Knights have also been portrayed as guardians of the legendary Holy Grail, the cup used by Christ at the Last Supper before his crucifixion.

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