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#220131 - 10/15/07 08:26 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: Grrr82CU]
Grrr82CU Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: nanago
Notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci, compiled and edited from the original manuscripts,By Jean Paul Richter


Old copy of this is buried somewhere. Will look into.

...and Grrr82CU smile
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#220472 - 10/18/07 06:21 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: Grrr82CU]
Grrr82CU Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Chicago, IL
Just a quick update regarding a response about the material authored by Jean Paul Richter posted by 'nanago':

Most of this writer's library is stored in another city in a different state (USA) due to a recent move.

In the meantime...

The criteron that will have to be satisfied remains whether any use of a "Y" (as stated by 'nanago' was presented by J. Richter) was as a "Letter" (which was not a naturally occurying member of Leonardo's Italian alphabet) that he employed in the spelling of a word...or...was it used as a "Symbol" in a non-word-building context (such as the "Pythagorean Y") to represent something else.

It will be a little while before this can be more fully addressed.

...and Grrr82CU smile

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#221081 - 10/22/07 07:21 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: Grrr82CU]
PDM Offline


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Registered: 12/16/04
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Just thought I'd throw in something I saw in an 'alternative' documentary ~ or maybe read in a Picknett & Prince book ~ the 'interesting' idea that English was considered to be a 'special' language used by 'the initiated'.

Any thoughts??
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#221124 - 10/22/07 01:17 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: PDM]
Grrr82CU Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: PDM
English was considered to be a 'special' language used by 'the initiated'


More intrigue wink !!??!!

First question that came to mind...what 'era' of English development ??

As previously demonstrated (post #219281 - 10/10/07), the English of Leonardo's day (with or without 'initiation' into its usage) was nothing like that of today. Any deployment of it even by an 'initiated' Leonardo would have relfected the language then, not the language of later development or today's.

...and Grrr82CU smile

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#221551 - 10/24/07 09:41 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: Grrr82CU]
nanago Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
But we are not talking about just anyone, we are talking about the 'Mind' of Lionardo.

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#225803 - 11/11/07 11:54 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: nanago]
nanago Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
Grrr82CU , On the back side of the picture we call the Arno Valley in Leonardo da vinci's writing backwards shows proof of the "Y" being used in the name "MARY". by L;eonardo The writing says " Leonardo’s study of the landscape began early in his artistic career. The inscription on this drawing, written in Leonardo’s characteristic mirror-writing reads, [b]“(feast) of Saint Mary of the Snow/ - day of August 5th, 1473”. [/b]As such, it is Leonardo’s earliest surviving drawing, executed when he was just 21 years old.

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#228181 - 11/17/07 05:20 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: nanago]
Grrr82CU Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: nanago
Grrr82CU , On the back side of the picture we call the Arno Valley in Leonardo da vinci's writing backwards shows proof of the "Y" being used in the name "MARY". by Leonardo


With all respect intended, when this writer followed the link you kindly provided and examined the drawing under high magnification and a mirror held up to the faded, backwards, script, the "Y" was clearly not a "Y" at all but an "M".

The first half of Leonardo's cursive "M" starts with a curl at its inception before continuing to completion and proceding to the middle stroke of the "M". That middle-of-the-"M"-stroke then rises to begin the last half of Leonardo's cursive letter "M" which is formed by a downward stoke, descending, arching outward as it does and then curving back again to completion.

If looked at casually it might be thought to be a "Y" but examined more closely in context with the remainder of the word spelled...the word is "Maria" not "Mary".

Leonardo may have written his sentences backwards but this writer is not aware of any example wherein he wrote his letters backwards. The word "Maria" seen on the drawing, written backwards, clearly ends with an “a”.

As previously presented, Leonardo did not use a letter that was not in his language at the time he lived for word construction. Again from what this writer viewed under high magnification and a mirror, this example does not provide any evidence to the contrary.

"Maria" was the name of "Mary" in the Italian of Leonardo's day even as it was in the English of his day.

...and Grrr82CU smile


Edited by Lisa Shea (12/29/12 11:33 PM)
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#228351 - 11/18/07 02:49 AM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: Grrr82CU]
nanago Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
Grrr82CU, "Maria" was the name of "Mary" in the Italian of Leonardo's day even as it was in the English of his day.Yes I agree with you Grrr82CU, I was just pointing out what Martin Kemp spoke of.
Smiles

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#242720 - 01/10/08 02:42 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: nanago]
nanago Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 67
Loc: U.S.A.
Cracking the real da Vinci code; Centuries later, a Mason says ... Cracking the real da Vinci code: Hidden in plain sight By Gail McCarthy GLOUCESTER DAILY TIMES (GLOUCESTER, Mass.) GLOUCESTER, Mass. — Michael Domoretsky has spent the past four years studying the works of Leonardo da Vinci to uncover the secrets of the original Renaissance man. Now he’s sharing those secrets with the world. What Domoretsky has found, he says, is a “legacy of hidden messages” carefully concealed in some of the world’s most famous paintings and decipherable only to those who know how to read them. Domoretsky, an Ipswich resident, gave his first public presentation on his research before a roomful of North Shore Masons at their lodge on Eastern Avenue in Gloucester on Tuesday night. The venue was appropriate because Domoretsky believes the 15th century artist was a Mason who incorporated Masonic symbols, like the compass and square, into his works. “The best place to hide something is in plain sight,” said Domoretsky, who is a Mason himself and works with stone as a self-employed installer of marble and granite countertops. Domoretsky has had a lifelong interest in da Vinci. But his obsession with the master’s secrets was kindled when he came across an image of the “Mona Lisa” on a Web site about the movie “The Da Vinci Code.” He’s quick to add, however, that he didn’t see the movie until long after he began his research, has never read the book and his work has no connection to the ideas presented by “Code” author Dan Brown. Domoretsky said da Vinci was a master of optical illusion who created pictures within pictures within pictures — many of them designed to be visible only with the use of mirrors. In the darkened hall, Domoretsky projected images of two paintings, “Mona Lisa” and “The Virgin and Child with St. Anne and the Infant Saint John the Baptist,” as they appear when mirrors are positioned to the right and left of the original artwork. The resulting twinned images reveal hidden faces and objects and forms that include several chalices and what Domoretsky sees as a high priest of the Knights Templar, a Templar shield and cross and a sarcophagus. The Knights Templar came into existence after the First Crusade of 1096 to protect European pilgrims en route to sacred sites in Jerusalem. The order was suppressed about 200 years later but, some believe, went underground and survived as a secret society. Domoretsky believes da Vinci was “heavily involved in Freemasonry and the Knights Templar.” Graham Noll of Groveland, who is part of Domoretsky’s da Vinci Project Research Group and assisted at Tuesday’s presentation, said the messages that the artist embedded in his work were intended for other initiates of the secret societies in which da Vinci was involved. “The membership of craft and professional associations were given knowledge and ritual to protect, and da Vinci was obliged to pass on the information,” Noll said. Domoretsky said to his knowledge, he is the first to use the mirror imaging to study Da Vinci’s work. Scholars are skeptical of his findings — one critic, for example, questions why da Vinci would conceal the word “Mary” in the folds of the Mona Lisa’s clothing when the Italian for Mary is “Maria.” “Anyone who claims to find something new is dismissed by the experts,” Domoretsky said. “We are misrepresented because some people don’t like what we say.” Domoretsky remains undaunted and continues his research to decode da Vinci’s secrets and the meaning of messages he encrypted in his paintings. He plans to hit the road with the show he presented in Gloucester. Domoretsky, who also plans a book, has previously detailed some of his findings on his Web site, www.lionardofromvinci.com. (He believes the artist’s real first name was Lionardo, not Leonardo.) Dana Andrus, master of the Tyrian-Ashler-Acacia Masonic Lodge in Gloucester, said Masons he talked with after the presentation were intrigued by Domoretsky’s work. “I think he is somewhat of a visionary,” Andrus said. “He used da Vinci’s own insight to look at the paintings. That’s someone who has taken a great deal of time and thought, and not listened to the conventional wisdom, and come up with a new idea on how to approach something.” Gail McCarthy writes for the Gloucester Daily Times of Gloucester, Mass. E-mail her at gmcarthy@ecnnews.com

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#318729 - 08/11/08 01:41 PM Re: 'Y' - Euclid, Pythagoras, Leonardo, etc. MarY [Re: Grrr82CU]
Grrr82CU Offline
Companion

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Chicago, IL
In the Post, #219883 - 10/14/07, Part 2, a reference to Leonardo's Codex Trivulzianus was followed by a URL to allow readers to view the material referenced (available through Central Saint Martins College of Art and Design's website).

The URL originally embedded has apparently been changed. For those wishing to view the image, please click on the following new hyperlink: Codex Trivulzianus by Leonardo da Vinci

Enjoy...and Grrr82CU !!

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