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#424595 - 09/20/12 11:17 PM Jesus Had a Wife
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
CNN and many other news sites are reporting about a fascinating new Coptic document that has been found.

Jesus Married

In that document, it says:

"Jesus said to them, 'My wife ..."

So what do you think? Was Jesus talking about HIS wife? Or was he in the middle of a parable? So before this he said something like ...

"Imagine I was an elderly shopkeeper and was worn down at the end of the day. I am looking around at my shop, wondering where my time had gotten to." Jesus shook his head pondering the situation. Then Jesus said, "My wife comes up to me and asks ..."

Or do you think Jesus was really talking about his own wife?
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#424600 - 09/21/12 04:16 AM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
tessboss Offline
Long Time Friend

Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 829
I do think that if Jesus walked the earth he would have a wife. I can only imagine how woman were treated over 2000 years ago, probably look at as cattle or property.

Was it Mary Magdaline ?? Did he marry her to set an example?

How did he treat his wife? Did she walk behind him, and look down when spoken to or was silent unless addressed. We can only speculate.
But I do think being a woman back then would have sucked.

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#424605 - 09/21/12 11:18 AM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
illusive Fantasy Offline
Platinum Star Soulmate

Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 7295
Loc: Massachusetts
everything i know or have heard etc they were not treated like that at one time...but along the line i guess some things changed...we will never know with all certainty i guess....
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#424610 - 09/21/12 02:20 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
Mongrel Offline
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Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 445
Loc: Midwest USA, The Beeble Belt
After an entire life of hearing, reading and thinking on this subject I am not yet convinced that there was a prophet named Jesus. As I have said before. As a nation we have a hard time keeping our own history correct so a single man that lived before the fall of the Roman Empire cannot be that impassive that he stands out over 2000 years of constant human struggle unless the powers that be have use for the myth that he represents which then makes me even more leery about his existence in the first place.
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"Nowadays, people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde

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#424612 - 09/21/12 02:37 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: tessboss]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
Dear Tessboss -

I agree that being a woman back in Biblical times provided far less opportunities than we have now.

The Bible was fairly harsh about women -

"And a man will choose...any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman...Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" -- Ecclesiasticus

Women were used and abused and often not more than a baby-generating machine.

But that being said, when Jesus came along he did make a valiant attempt to get women to be treated better. He preached about treasuring and respecting women.

But after he died, the church fairly quickly went back to squishing them.

I think for that brief shining period, that being with Jesus would have been nice.
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#424613 - 09/21/12 02:38 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: illusive Fantasy]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
Dear Illusive Fantasy -

I think the way women were treated came and went over the ages. During some periods they were burned as witches. In other periods they were revered as symbols of Mary's purity. So you had to be extremely lucky about when you were born and the family into which you were born.
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#424614 - 09/21/12 02:39 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Mongrel]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
Dear Mongrel -

I think it's likely that it's like King Arthur or Robin Hood. There was probably a person originally, and like a grain of sand around which a pearl forms, the story then grew up around him.
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#424617 - 09/21/12 04:23 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
Mongrel Offline
Great Friend

Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 445
Loc: Midwest USA, The Beeble Belt
Lisa I understand however in today's world people need something more to believe in than simple ghost stories. I have actually seen and felt the power that my present religion offers me and we are benign, non-aligned with any other organizations. It's a pure power offered by nature and the group who believe and know how to harness it. I never felt anything like that in my Christian church and I spent the majority of my life in that lie.

In the last three, almost four, years now I have heard very unorthodox stories for both Robin Hood and Arthur which have both spiritual and historical validity however every time we hear of something like this about Jesus it dries up and goes away in just a matter of days. I have no doubt there was a man named Jesus in that particular time because it was a popular name but THE JESUS is the one I am having a hard time with.

I'm not trying to take this out on anybody and believe me I have alot of vex to share but I want to know where the scandal started and how it got to be so big?

The Muslim believes in Jesus though the "Christian Cause" has killed more than two million of them in the past twenty years and that's a conservative estimate. Really I mean if you pray to the east and live in the Bronx you might as well be a colored fella wearin a hoody in Atlanta in the 1930's trying to sit in first class. My family was driven off of their land and out of their own country in the 1700's by Christians so I really don't want a "Good Book" full of fake connotations and elusive mistakes to be the only available evidence that people can call upon.

People need to know why their churches are dying yet their political candidates still use the Christian religion as a cure-all for their sagging statistics. If you take I-57 to Chicago or south to St. Louis you will see at least thirty abandoned churches but plenty of fat and healthy farms and suburbs. I could quote a bunch of numbers and stats but no one will care.

I suppose that's my main fault . . . . I just wanna know why?
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"Nowadays, people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde

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#424618 - 09/21/12 05:35 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
illusive Fantasy Offline
Platinum Star Soulmate

Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 7295
Loc: Massachusetts
Dear Lisa...your getting off the subject of the initial query by bringing up the rest...
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#424623 - 09/21/12 05:59 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Mongrel]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
Dear Mongrel -

I do agree that it will be vastly challenging for us to ever know if the one initial "seed" of a Jesus ever did the vast number of things that are attributed to him. After all, this Jesus is claimed by some to have gone to China, others to have gone to Europe, and so on in his "lost years". Even the approved books of the Bible sometimes offer conflicting information about what he did.

Then on top of that, even if we did have an official biography of exactly what he did, over the next 2,000 years people interpreted and re-interpreted those acts in their own frame of reference. For example, for a long while priests could marry. Then POOF the church decided to change that for political reasons.

Countless horrific acts are committed "in the church's name". I write all my medieval novels in the time period of the crusades. I read about that a lot.

I think though that mankind is flawed and had it not been the Church we "blamed" for our violent actions that we would have simply had another reason. The Civil War came about due to slavery. Whether or not a Jesus had existed, that type of conflict would have come up. Wars are fought for oil and money and resources. People sometimes blame the church, but there are other underlying reasons. The Irish conflicts were phrased in terms of "Protestants / Catholics" but really it went beyond that. It was about the groups of people, not really about the type of religion they had.

So in the end I don't think it's that one man or his book that matters. I think it's the groups of people learning to accept each other.
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#424624 - 09/21/12 06:04 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: illusive Fantasy]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
Dear Illusive Fantasy -

It's true that when we had very high traffic that we forced threads to stay on quite narrow topics. If someone strayed even a tiny bit off topic, we would reprimand them and move the discussion elsewhere.

While that did work for the forum for a while, I wonder if that is part of why we have low traffic now. On Facebook and Twitter people post about whatever they want to, on tangents, on side-tracks, and have fun with it. The conversation moves organically.

Since we barely have 1-2 posts a day right now in the forums, I'm looking for ways to engage people more, and to draw back that sense of a "live conversation". Maybe it will help to revitalize the forums. I think at least it is worth a try.
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Lisa Shea, Owner

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#424686 - 09/22/12 02:17 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
According to the New York Times, other pieces of wording on the same fragment seem to indicate that the "wife" being discussed was named "Mary". http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/us/papyrus-fragment-that-refers-to-jesus-wife-stirs-debate.html?_r=0 "According to her translation, Line 3 includes the words “Mary is worthy of it.” Line 5, immediately after the line about Jesus’ wife, says, “...she will be able to be my disciple.” Line 7 says, “As for me, I dwell with her in order to...”" What do you think, does this point to Mary M? It's still so odd that with all the many writings there are about Jesus, that none of them say "he was celibate" or say "he was married". They just never talk about it at all.
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Lisa Shea, Owner

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#424769 - 09/24/12 02:25 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
Mongrel Offline
Great Friend

Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 445
Loc: Midwest USA, The Beeble Belt
Lisa, When I turned a teenager and that whole birds and bees business started looming in my head I had alot of questions. Questions about THE Jesus and his "Libido" naturally occured so I asked my grandfather about about it and the silence was ominous.

Most cultures had figured out thousands of years ago that a man cannot live a life of complete celibacy and that the more unpleasant, rebellious, and aggressive aspects, as well as the libido within a man could be controlled through gelding especially at a young age. Gelding was used as a form of capital punishment in the US up until just one-hundred years ago.

I digress, I waned from the point of this thread and my own post once again. The point being that unless THE Jesus was a eunuch, provided he was a man as the bible says and he was real, then he had those urges and he needed relief from the needs of a human man.

In today's world it's just about everyday we hear about another perv, or priest, that sexually abuse a child and they had taken a vow of celibacy. In my book any man who would abuse a child is one who should be skinned alive starting with the extremities.
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"Nowadays, people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde

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#424799 - 09/25/12 04:55 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
Berzelmayr Offline
Companion

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 100
Francis Watson, an expert on this matter, thinks the text is a fake: http://markgoodacre.org/Watson.pdf
(I don't know if Sherlock Holmes agrees with him wink
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#424825 - 09/26/12 07:56 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
Mongrel -

I think for a small portion of men that the idea of life without sex is one they are happy with. Some men simply aren't that interested in sex, and that is OK. Maybe those specific men would love being in an atmosphere where it never came up.

But I agree that most men (and most people in general) do have an interest in sex, and to continually try to repress it is less than healthy.

It makes me wonder if maybe the one or two men in charge back when the whole celibacy thing was pushed through were those low-sex-drive men, and thought it would work out fine. They didn't see how much of a problem it would be for others.
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#424826 - 09/26/12 08:02 PM Re: Jesus Had a Wife [Re: Lisa Shea]
Lisa Shea Offline


True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 8821
Loc: US
Berzelmayr -

Some interesting points are made in that article! I wonder if we did similar studies of other Coptic material if we'd find similar matches, though. It would help more if they could say "it matches this one 20% where in comparison no other Coptic documents found ever match any other one more than 1%". I'd like to know how common it is for them to have similar phrases.
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Lisa Shea, Owner

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