Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn't include at least parts of the specific number of days and at least parts of the specific number of nights?
Loc: bude , cornwall
would you care to elaborate?
you seem to be alluding to a literal interpretation of bible chronology, which seems purely academic unless you are seriously going to argue in favour of young earth creationism...
beyond which this seems to be about the resurrection of the worlds favourite fictional character. for my own part the bible is so full of glaring inconsistencies and contradictions that pedantry like this seems rather pointless to me.
so - do you accept the bible is inconsistent, or are you a young earth creationist?
Loc: bude , cornwall
yes, we'd all like to see some texts from the first century, but they are spectacularly thin on the ground. the vatican has seen to that. beyond that you would have to look for detailed explanations of chronology in those texts, which is something which by and large does not exist in 'biblical' texts.
it is relevant to the young earth view because the bible chronology is either absolute throughout the book, or a phantasm which can be disregarded at large. i do not think there is any middle ground. therefore if young earth creationism is incorrect (which to my mind is the only sane interpretation) then any argument about chronology in the bible is a mute one.
the bible is spectacularly inconsistent, which is to be expected from a book compiled on grounds of agenda and politics rather than historical chronicle. i see no reason to take it more seriously than morte d'artur or the hobbit.
I guess you are referring to the belief in some communities that crucifixion took place on Wednesday, burial on Thursday and resurrection on Sunday . . . as if Crucifixion took place on Friday, it is not exactly 3 nights and 3 days Jesus was in the 'belly' of earth.
I am not aware of any contemporary Jewish writing that confirms the fact that part of days were counted towards whole days.
Believe in nothing unless it agrees with your own reason, knowledge & common sense Be good, do good
No, and I'm not aware of any 4th day of the week crucifixion proponents who think the resurrection took place on the first day of the week.
Then this might be interesting . . ............ in order to get three days and three nights and have Jesus Christ out of the grave on Sunday morning, Wednesday will have to be the day that Jesus Christ was crucified on.
Hmmm I think I feel night comes at the end of the day. If I wake up on Wednesday in the day, I then go to sleep on Wednesday at night - and when it's dawn again it's now Thursday. I think night is after day.
Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.
With the new year upon us, maybe there will be someone new looking in who knows of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.
The Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". However, there are those who believe that the Messiah died on the 6th day of the week and who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week. But this belief allows for only 2 night times to be involved. To reconcile this discrepancy some say that the Messiah was using common Jewish idiomatic language. I am simply asking for examples to support that assertion; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.